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Old 07-30-2017, 02:00 PM   #176
MisterRodriguez
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Mikhel prove something,negotiate the betting terms or shut up with all due respect
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:47 PM   #177
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

I have repeatedly proved my point.

How does a bet suddenly prove or disprove my point?

Please explain that.
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Old 07-30-2017, 02:52 PM   #178
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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Originally Posted by Mihkel05 View Post
Like,

My claims are that he is a pathological liar. I've proven that rather unequivocally since he has a problem keeping his lies straight. How exactly did he spend three years going to visit WS on site as a the "primary investor" yet also have a very small part and not be involved day to day? He'd literally made both claims. One of these must be false. That may be the simplest one for you to understand.

Also, you seem to think any claim should be taken at face value. As an SME I can weight the likelihood someone would put down a 75k future wager online for their entire net worth: 0%. I could make a similar claim about going to the moon. The counter party would not be required to provide evidence that this didn't occur (absence of evidence is not evidence of absence), but could use their opinion as an expert to assert the probability.

BTW false accusations of criminality is illegal. Since I'm an actual expert, this isn't libel. (You should learn what words mean before you use them.) But Bubba could certainly take me to court and have his good name proven. I'm sure he'd be able to produce some screenshots of hit massive winning future bets or something.

OK, theres some tangible stuff here. The 75k future bet does seem shady, but I dont know if Id say its completely impossible. With enough outs and being in Vegas, where I thought he said this all took place, I guess I could maybe see being able to get that much down. Maybe. It does seem like a lot of money for a futures bet. Would think the line would, at the very least, move a ton by the time he got even less than half that amount down.

I dont know enough about wager street and/or hbob's history of owning or now owning it to add anything, other than it should be fairly easy to prove that you (hbob) did or did not own a large stake in it.
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:27 PM   #179
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Like,

Again you seem to be struggling with my thesis. It is not proving whether he he did or did not, but the mere fact that he has claimed many variations of both.

Are you familiar with his EL story? And the various permutations of the story? My point is that the narrative is fluid and he says whatever he wants to say, since he doesn't keep track of this and its been ongoing for a decade many of the comments he currently makes are directly opposed to comments he has made before. Sometimes he's given out reasons for lying (Such as not wanting to divulge he owned a portion of WS and assumed the EL debt as a condition of the sale to Oly) other times he just kinda glosses over it. You may notice his absence from this thread where he had plenty of time to defend himself previously, but when you get past the bluster of MILLION DOLLAR BET and look at his comments, one set must obviously be false, since they are directly opposed.

He also claims to have made another 75k bet on the Lakers again in 01 btw at even longer odds. Guess this was back when you could just pop off 75k on futures without meaningfully moving the line, yet 14 years later he's holding 8k in a BTC book to get down with? I guess you can believe that if you like.
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:11 PM   #180
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Unhappy Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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Originally Posted by Mihkel05 View Post
Like,

Again you seem to be struggling with my thesis. It is not proving whether he he did or did not, but the mere fact that he has claimed many variations of both.

Are you familiar with his EL story? And the various permutations of the story? My point is that the narrative is fluid and he says whatever he wants to say, since he doesn't keep track of this and its been ongoing for a decade many of the comments he currently makes are directly opposed to comments he has made before. Sometimes he's given out reasons for lying (Such as not wanting to divulge he owned a portion of WS and assumed the EL debt as a condition of the sale to Oly) other times he just kinda glosses over it. You may notice his absence from this thread where he had plenty of time to defend himself previously, but when you get past the bluster of MILLION DOLLAR BET and look at his comments, one set must obviously be false, since they are directly opposed.

He also claims to have made another 75k bet on the Lakers again in 01 btw at even longer odds. Guess this was back when you could just pop off 75k on futures without meaningfully moving the line, yet 14 years later he's holding 8k in a BTC book to get down with? I guess you can believe that if you like.
I just think its hilarious that you guys keep on referencing me owning a piece of WS as some smoking gun discovery - When I am the one who divulged this info ON THIS VERY WEBSITE. Great detective work guys, how did you manage to figure that one out.

Also why is it so hard to believe that in 2000 you could get down 75k (value in CAD bc I was Canadian betting in USD) on a futures bet without moving the number do you have any idea how many books were around in 2000 and how disconnected the market was back then? There were people earning a very good living just scalping MLB back then because the market was that inefficient.

Its also hilarious that you mentioned me betting 250k a game and not understanding that pre UIGEA getting down that much $ was a breeze. In fact Pre 2008 (Donaghy) you could get down 100k on a 1h total in Asia alone if you had the right connections.

Its kind of comical how out of touch a lot of you guys are with what goes down with betting large amounts of money.

Why is it so hard to believe that I'd have a small amount of $ with Nitro in 2015 when 1 - they offer instant w/ds (why would you ever carry more than a few bets worth of postup with them at a time). 2. They offer anonymous accounts.

Do you have any idea how betting large amts of money works nowadays (or in 2015)? I'll explain it for you in case you don't (in order of preference).

1. You find a great beard who can bet big amounts of cash with a reputable spot, preferably in the UK. Once upon a time a big UK book was taking 50-75k GBP on NBA totals from "me" (really my beard) That place nowonly takes 20k gbp on full game totals and 500 gpb on half totals no matter how good the beard from my understanding.

1a. You can beard into the guy from TX who has the biggest set of balls of any bookmaker you could ever imagine. Pretty sure he just got arrested, and may or not have went broke prior to that (wonder how).

2. You get some good asian outs through a beard (the .hgs) where you can get down a decent amount without moving the market. Its my understanding that these places are tougher to bet now as well as they open limits later and later in the day and if you want to bet in the morning you have to click a game 50-60x to get down 10k (they take micro limits and force you to click it over and over again, don't ask me why but thats what they do). They will also take a game offline after you make a few bets and more aggressively move the #

3. You try using a VIP brokerage like Matchbook VIP, they at times can be brutal to work with will blast market and will often go out on games before you give it to them if they can figure out what sides you seem to be favoring on a daily basis.

In fact the 1h / 2h total plays that were great from 2000-2013 were ruined when Jan (perp czech) figured out this angle and Matchbook VIP started letting people bet 75k on 1h totals in either 2013 or 2014 I forget which year that was.

4. You get a ton of micro click accounts from lots of different agents. I think the smallest account I'd have taken in 2014-2015 was around 200-300 my end, you then stick them in your autobettor. The Agent gets somewhere between 30-70% depending on how pieced out the account was, a lot of volume nowadays goes through PPH outlaw spots. The last year I was doing this full time we had >150 micro click accounts in our auto betttor.

So knowing all of that and knowing that I've been super long BTC since the very beginning, (I was mocked on twitter for being long BTC when it dropped from 1000 to 300) why wouldn't I want to *print* a free 10-15btc a week with nitrogen?

Keep in mind that i have 100% Of the account which is almost NEVER THE CASE.

How is this so hard to believe. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to actually bet games nowadays for scale? This isn't 2005 where you could just get down 100k without even trying.

Everything was so much easier 5-7 years ago, nowadays betting is just a **** show.

In fact betting in 2010 was a ****show, but even in 2010 it was miles and mils better than it is now.

In 2010ish when Pinny was still wide open with credit accounts in the US you could manage to get yourself an anonymous bluecircle account if you knew the right people and just blast pinnacle for a few weeks.

For those unfamiliar with bluecircle accounts, they were double or triple limit accounts for VIPs (usually big losers) and Pinny *might* move the number 1-3 cents after a bet. *might*

I say for a few weeks because eventually pinnacle would figure out the account was sharp and close the account or return it to regular limits or to a level where the number moves AND a trader is informed of the bet so they can make the proper adjustments (lay off etc).

When that would happened the agent (if you had a good one) would just get you a new one and you could possibly repeat the process over again a few times.

Some other things you seem to have trouble understanding -

I took a year off in the 2010 season to do some consulting work with an NBA team - I didn't like it and returned to betting 2011-2015ish. Since 2015ish I've been at best part time and in the case of the last 1.5 years I've been working on something unrelated and not involved with betting at all.\


Why would I do this when I could still win?

Because I don't need more $ (remember i made all my money because I owned a piece of a fledgling crappy online book)

Betting is a pain in the ass nowadays, I've been stiffed, slow paid and hustled for more money than most of you guys will see in your lifetime. I had a "pro poker player" who bearded me into the best book in the world, paid me the first 2m that I won and then who managed to lose 9-10m to the bookie betting his own stuff and wasn't able to pay me the remaining balance I'm owed.

You have to deal with the super clever agents who give you 5-10 accounts and then keep 15-20 for themselves so they can get access to your information and bet more $ for themselves because they are greedy.

Its not as exciting for me as it used to be.

And finally - I've got too much other stuff going on right now.

Question for Mikhel -

Do you doubt that I've worked for an NBA team in a consulting role and that if I wanted to right now I would work for one again?

Do you doubt that I've had a beard in a big book an have beat that book for mid 7 figures?

What type of crow would you eat if I could provide doc. to prove would that shut you up?

Find a trustworthy emissary who I know (or will make himself known to me) and provided he's willing to keep all the info confidential and I'd be happy to share that with him proof of the above claims.

Absent of that you are just a pathetic little troll and I'm done with you.
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:15 PM   #181
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Quote:
1. You find a great beard who can bet big amounts of cash with a reputable spot, preferably in the UK. Once upon a time a big UK book was taking 50-75k GBP on NBA totals from "me" (really my beard) That place nowonly takes 20k gbp on full game totals and 500 gpb on half totals no matter how good the beard from my understanding.
ROFL you mean 50 cents right?
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:27 PM   #182
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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ROFL you mean 50 cents right?
Not sure what you mean - You are doubting that a big UK book (that everyone knows) around 2010-2015 was taking ~100k USD (roughly) on Full game and half sides and totals for NBA and NFL?
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:34 PM   #183
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Wow. That totally addresses my points about you being completely inconsistent with your claims.

Great post!
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:55 PM   #184
MisterRodriguez
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Nice Post Haralabos,well that UK acc probably was one of your best spots ever after the half totals in the early phase of your carreer..How is it even possible to get a beard in a UK Bookie?Anyway thank you for insight and regarding the futures bet i have 0 doubt you could do it back in the day,even nowadays in top level markets like Tennis and Soccer despite the high comission you find there the biggest inefficiencies
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:58 PM   #185
Mihkel05
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Yes, Champions League and NFL are where the big boys play to get those 12% edges.
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Old 07-30-2017, 06:58 PM   #186
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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ROFL you mean 50 cents right?
Sent you a PM showing email chain with beard + Sbook head confirming negotiated limits.
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:10 PM   #187
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coltranedog View Post
Not sure what you mean - You are doubting that a big UK book (that everyone knows) around 2010-2015 was taking ~100k USD (roughly) on Full game and half sides and totals for NBA and NFL?
I had dozens of accounts at that specific book in that time frame and none would take anywhere near that to start and after about 5 bets wouldn't take more than .12
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:19 PM   #188
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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Originally Posted by Sabaneta View Post
I had dozens of accounts at that specific book in that time frame and none would take anywhere near that to start and after about 5 bets wouldn't take more than .12
Probably didn't have a good enough (easily googleable) beard. If you have a good beard and you are an originator who can control the market they won't shut you off for quite some time IME. The biggest thing they look for is whether or not you beat closing lines, not if you actually win.

My account lasted a full season with a 6.5% roi on >700 bets. The only reason they backed us off the following season (i think) is because someone posted something on social media connecting my dog to the beard.
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:51 PM   #189
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

The board is an amazing place,

You have Mikhel05 convinced you are a fraud, you have guys posting libelous things (that you own an illegal bitcoin sportsbook).

You have Sabenta Rolling on the floor laughing at something you posted, you decide to login to an old email account to show him some verifiable facts that you were telling the truth and that the book in question does take bigger bets if;

1. You are smart about it
2. You know what the **** you are doing
3. You have good enough connections to find a good famous beard.
4. You are an originator who can control a large market (don't have the line steam too much).

In other words the very things that most of the idiots on this board have no chance of ever accomplishing and thus deem it impossible to be true.

Here is a life tip for some of you out there - just because you can't imagine something ever happening, or you can't imagine yourself ever accomplishing anything, it doesn't make it impossible.
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:05 PM   #190
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coltranedog View Post
The board is an amazing place,

You have Mikhel05 convinced you are a fraud, you have guys posting libelous things (that you own an illegal bitcoin sportsbook).

You have Sabenta Rolling on the floor laughing at something you posted, you decide to login to an old email account to show him some verifiable facts that you were telling the truth and that the book in question does take bigger bets if;

1. You are smart about it
2. You know what the **** you are doing
3. You have good enough connections to find a good famous beard.
4. You are an originator who can control a large market (don't have the line steam too much).

In other words the very things that most of the idiots on this board have no chance of ever accomplishing and thus deem it impossible to be true.

Here is a life tip for some of you out there - just because you can't imagine something ever happening, or you can't imagine yare ourself ever accomplishing anything, it doesn't make it impossible.
End of thread for me.Haralabos they are just cynics you can not win an argument.
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:07 PM   #191
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

This thread is fun.

Mihkel/Thremp, you gonna put up or shut up? If you're so convinced hbob is lying about any specific, provable thing, work out the actual terms to an escrowed bet. You have a history of making **** up about people you don't like even when they're nobodies in the betting world (me), now you have one of the most well known sports bettors in the world who you have called out as a liar here willing to prove his claims with large sums of money on the line and you can't even attempt to organise a bet?

Nobody cares about what you have to say unless you're willing to either prove your claims publicly with evidence (which is something you love to claim you have done, yet never provide any proof of in thread), or offer a bet for Hbob to prove any specific claim of his that you claim is a lie.
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:15 PM   #192
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

its funny to see,this guys refuting haralabos claims without any prove for instance in the lakers future bet in 2000 just because for them is inconceivable to try big things with 25 years old when you have nothing to lose,thats why they are here now as forum bullies and haralabos is one of the most famous bettors in the world.so this is a pointless discussion
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:18 PM   #193
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Swoop,

Didn't you say that you weren't posting except the MMA thread? Or am I thinking of someone else who made a dramatic post in the politic betting thread?
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:46 PM   #194
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Mihkel,

Don't get sidetracked. Stay focused on the task at hand and keep up the good work.
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:51 PM   #195
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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Originally Posted by PokerHero77 View Post
Mihkel,

Don't get sidetracked. Stay focused on the task at hand and keep up the good work.
Yes Mikhel stay focused on the task at hand. Your app has already amassed 41 followers on twitter and its only been 2 years. Its only a matter of time before you hit 100.
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Old 07-30-2017, 09:48 PM   #196
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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Old 07-30-2017, 10:03 PM   #197
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

Caltrain have you had a financial interest in any sportsbook since wagerstreet?
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:08 PM   #198
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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Caltrain have you had a financial interest in any sportsbook since wagerstreet?
Its Coltrane.

And No, haven't had any involvement or investments with any gaming company since then.
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Old 07-31-2017, 12:16 AM   #199
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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Originally Posted by Mihkel05 View Post
Wow. That totally addresses my points about you being completely inconsistent with your claims.

Great post!
Well you do fling a lot of **** around to keep track of. He addressed the Lakers bet, the 250k thing, and showed EL agrees with his version of the story about that debt (you claim he has different contradicting versions of this story but haven't seen you post any sources, so what is there for him to refute?).

He's also apparently gotten you to backpedal on repeated accusations over the years that he owns nitrogen and is a fake sharp/fake sportsbetting millionaire, and now you're sitting at "being completely inconsistent" with his claims, which seems like the most vague and pointless accusation ever.

If you're going to publicly accuse people of things you have to show your work.
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:03 AM   #200
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Re: Who are the legit top sports bettors?

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Originally Posted by Mihkel05 View Post
So are you conceding that was all bull**** you previously posted? (The Lakers bet, Avery Johnson stuff, the 2m assumed EL debt, being the primary investor and doing a bunch of work for WS, basically everything you post)

I have no idea whether what you just posted is true or not, and I have no doubt that you can find someone who wants a ton of off screen action (who doesn't), so I'm not sure what that prop bet would solve. I am just amused at your continual stream of nonsense and lies, and how you're bizarrely deified yet have made repeatedly idiotic comments that are demonstrably dishonest/false. Must be hard to keep track of all the lies.
Such an odd thing to be so frivolously and incessantly outraged about.

Anyone with even periphery contact with coltranedog knows at least some of what he says is true. I happened to know it's all true, but so what? It's not even marginally unbelievable, except to you apparently.

Edges disappear; time passes, things change. Irrespective of this, it's pretty obvious sports betting and poker are forever beatable assuming the vig and the rake aren't too high. You don't need a child-like imagination to imagine a world where this is true.
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