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Old 09-27-2007, 12:52 AM   #51
PropPlayer
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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I think it would be better if 2p2 stepped up and guaranteed that one poster his original deposit back if that poster can prove he deposited and that he tried to withdrawal
Eh, if they do this they should do it in private.

There will have been a ton of sign ups at Oddmaker since during the period 2+2 had their banners up because during the same period Oddsmaker was doing mass postal mailings with the Shrinks ringing endorsement of their site and a $100 free offer.

To many people stiffed off that mailing will come back later and claim their signing up had something to do with 2+2. They can't be accountable for everyone who signed up and have no way to track which players signed up because of their banner.

Already in the past few weeks old oddsmaker complaint threads at other forums are getting bumped and more threads than usual started because they are in full marketing mode right now.

That would be way more burden and responsibility that 2+2 needs to take on.

They obviously did not know about oddmakers past and 2+2 is more used to dealing with poker companies who in general are 50 times more trust worthy on average than a sportsbook is on average.

Not to mention oddsmaker is a true leader in their field. Seriously its not easy to run that successful of a scam long term - They are a role model and a company for other Scam books to look up to.
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Old 09-27-2007, 12:55 AM   #52
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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but, I think it would be better if Oddsmaker stepped up and guaranteed that one poster his original deposit back if that poster can prove he deposited and that he tried to withdrawal
-P
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Old 09-27-2007, 01:45 AM   #53
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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but, I think it would be better if Oddsmaker stepped up and guaranteed that one poster his original deposit back if that poster can prove he deposited and that he tried to withdrawal
-P
Yeah, I guess still no response from Oddsmaker?
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Old 09-27-2007, 02:23 AM   #54
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

lol nice fix Perf.

Oddsmaker won't respond because they know it would just bring bad press. They realize that 2+2 has less brain washed sheep then the other forums that sponsor them. Not to mention they don't have all the shills here to back them up. The Shill (oops I mean The Shrink) step in but he got no where.
At TheRx when you complain about being stiffed or screwed in any way by one of their sponsors what they do is change the threads title so its less likely to be seen and also will move the post. Sometimes to the rubber room other times into some useless other thread on similar topic.

Perf if you were a better mod you would of quickly change the title of this thread just to "whats up with" and then quickly merged this post into the under 175 over 210 basketball thread from the season before last. That way no one would have seen this and 2+2 would of kept their advertising revenue. Good thing you do some other things well :P

BTW... where are your picks this year?
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Old 09-27-2007, 03:02 PM   #55
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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I don't see how 2+2 retained much respect here. They didn't do any research into an utterly shady sponsor, and are directly responsible for at the very least one poster (and let's face, probably more that we haven't heard from) depositing money into said utterly shady operation.
But it only took me 30 seconds to reject the rakeback/affiliate proposal you sent us.

MM
Hi Mason,

I am more than happy to engage you in a discussion of that proposal either publicly or privately if you so desire. However, lets not do a further disservice to the players by hijacking this particular thread further.

Everyone else,

I am not saying 2+2 needs to be perfect, merely competent. Not knowing an obscure detail that ended up being relevant about a sportsbook, would be not quite perfect. However, not doing even the most basic investigation into an advertiser is incompetence.

Given the rather colossal mistake 2+2 has made, you would also expect them to do something other than the bare minimum. 2+2 has a reputation of the utmost integrity, and to retain that integrity, they need to handle situations like this better. Just taking the banners down is something youd see from random, minor, scrupulous site. However, for a site like 2+2 to retain the respect they hold with users, Mason (or at least another red) needs to make a post that goes something like this:

Hi everyone,

We have recently committed a very serious mistake, and would like to apologize. We recently took advertising from a sportsbook that ended up being a very poor place to send our players. To prevent this from happening again, we have implemented policies/procedures X, Y, & Z. Additionally, any poster who has any problems at all with Oddsmaker, should contact randomemailaddress@twoplustwo.com and we will use our contacts there to assist you as much as possible. Finally, we would like to thank PropPlayer for bringing this to our attention, and have sent him five free books of his choosing, as a way of saying thank you for helping to stop this before it could have gotten much worse. Again, we are very sorry for this mistake, but with the steps we have implemented, making it again should be nearly impossible.


That is the sort of thing Id expect to see from an industry leader in respect & integrity.
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Old 09-27-2007, 04:13 PM   #56
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

That is a good fix for 2p2 to do. Nice suggestion. Perf's editing of the earlier suggestion is also correct, of course.
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:23 PM   #57
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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This site has a reputation for integrity unrivaled by any other poker/gambling message board/forum around. And you guys dropped the ball on this one
We drop the ball on a lot of things. We're a small organization and are just not able to do everything well that comes our way. In the future, we'll attempt to look into unknown advertisers better.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:25 PM   #58
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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I have no doubt this is true Mason as you have always been a pretty straight shooter on these boards. But jek does have a point. This site has a reputation for integrity unrivaled by any other poker/gambling message board/forum around. And you guys dropped the ball on this one
No joke was made. It took me less than 30 seconds to reject his offer. All I did was look at how much he wanted and that was the end of it.

Best wishes,
Mason
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Old 09-27-2007, 05:40 PM   #59
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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Quote:
This site has a reputation for integrity unrivaled by any other poker/gambling message board/forum around. And you guys dropped the ball on this one
We drop the ball on a lot of things. We're a small organization and are just not able to do everything well that comes our way. In the future, we'll attempt to look into unknown advertisers better.

Best wishes,
Mason
Yeahhh aboutttt thattt.... I kind of deposited $50 on oddsmaker due solely to the fact that there was a huge freaking banner on twoplustwo under the sports threads. You say you'll do better to look into "unknown advertisers", well it wouldn't take much to do better seeing as oddsmaker apparently was a well known scam site. Now one could argue that I should have looked up this information on my own and my response to that is that I don't have the time to good around the web looking for information on gambling sites, when I want information/advice on most subjects I come to twoplustwo for the information because I believed it was of the highest integrity. It's a slippery slope from here. Next thing you know twoplustwo will have banners for the next dutch boyd poker site.

Thanks


ps... I would of tried to cashout already but there is a ridiculous $8 cashout fee. So I put my money into a 7 game NFL parley, assuming I win the $2k for the parlay and I can't get the money... well... then I will be pissed off, very very pissed off.
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Old 09-27-2007, 06:14 PM   #60
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

i've changed my mind

after seeing the 7 game parlay, you deserve no moniez
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Old 09-27-2007, 07:14 PM   #61
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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I have no doubt this is true Mason as you have always been a pretty straight shooter on these boards. But jek does have a point. This site has a reputation for integrity unrivaled by any other poker/gambling message board/forum around. And you guys dropped the ball on this one
No joke was made. It took me less than 30 seconds to reject his offer. All I did was look at how much he wanted and that was the end of it.

Best wishes,
Mason
Which leaves us no recourse but to assume that that is how long it took for oddsmaker to get a banner up here...less than 30 seconds. You saw the money that they wanted to change hands, and you said "sure". And, quite frankly, given your long history of less than honesty on these boards, there isn't a lot you can say to change this perception.

But I only have one question. Why haven't you apologized yet? You've made a handful of responses after Mat said that you guys pulled the ad. Why haven't you apologized?

Despicable.

Josh
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Old 09-27-2007, 11:35 PM   #62
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

1) Anyone who deposits on a sportsbook without reading the review for said sportsbook on SBR is asking for trouble

2) Anyone who accepts advertising dollars from a sportsbook without reading the review for said sportsbook on SBR is asking for trouble.

Sounds like we have a whiff of #1 and a dab of #2.

I'm glad to see 2p2 step up. They could have ignored this criticism or squelched the thread or done nothing -- instead they canceled a paying advertiser and have commented on the issue in public.

To the OP: Back out if you do or don't win your bets, and consider the $8 transaction fee a charge for not reading SBR and doing your homework before sending your money somewhere. Come back here and raise all sorts of hell if you can't get your money out. But until you try and fail, I wouldn't freak, and I'd just consider the $8 a cost of not doing your homework.

I'm really surprised at what I consider all the overreaction after the fact. 2p2 has taken the appropriate action, and they'll probably take a closer look at SBR next time they have a sportsbook come on as a sponsor. OP will win his magically +EV 7-team parlay and all will be right with the world...

-P
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:49 AM   #63
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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Which leaves us no recourse but to assume that that is how long it took for oddsmaker to get a banner up here...less than 30 seconds. You saw the money that they wanted to change hands, and you said "sure".
Actually i don't handle the advertising banners and didn't even know there was a problem until Mat told me about the thread.

Quote:
And, quite frankly, given your long history of less than honesty on these boards, there isn't a lot you can say to change this perception.
Why are you here then? I don't support organizations which in my opinion are dishonest. I suggest you do the same.

MM
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Old 09-28-2007, 02:05 AM   #64
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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And, quite frankly, given your long history of less than honesty on these boards, there isn't a lot you can say to change this perception.
Why are you here then? I don't support organizations which in my opinion are dishonest. I suggest you do the same.

MM
Honesty isn't a matter of opinion. You have been blatantly dishonest a number of times on these forums (even some your strongest supporters have pointed this out to you). Because of this, I'll do nothing to support you, personally.

And again I ask....why haven't you apologized? Maybe Mason Malmuth the person can't take the ego blow of admitting wrong doing, but maybe twoplustwo the company can.

Josh
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Old 09-28-2007, 03:07 AM   #65
Mason Malmuth
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

I don't appologize because I know nothing about this. I don't handle the advertising.

You need to understand that Oddsmaker claims that they are now under different management and are not responsible for former problems which our website managers were not aware of. So given their stance I don't know if they are bad guys like you claim.

However, they did not come on here and address this issue in a satisfactory manner as we requested. So on my instructions we refunded their advertising money for their future ads and told them they could not have banners here anymore.

As for you and your insults, that won't work on me. Again, if you think I'm dishonest and run a dishonest company, I wouldn't post here or participate here in any way. Keep in mind that by participating here, you are supporting me personally no matter what you may claim.

MM
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Old 09-28-2007, 11:04 AM   #66
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

I think his point was, now that you do know, perhaps an apology to the board for promoting a scam site is a good idea.

I don't know if that's what he meant, but that's my guess.

I think you did handle it well, after the initial error. And apologies for mistakes are free.

Like the AQ > JJ thread. It took a while, but you finally admitted the Masked Man was dead right.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:41 PM   #67
Mat Sklansky
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

I'll apologize on behalf of the website. If I remember correctly, they contacted us and it didn't occur to me to research them before accepting advertising. We've never had any issues like this with other sponsors.

However, more importantly, I really do want to know if anyone is denied a cashout. I don't know what I will do in that event, but I'll do something.

Second, oddsmaker is still communicating with me a little, asking how they can make things right. I'm sure that some of you will have suggestions.

If they are under new management, I believe they have the right to address the complaints before I start making sticky posts which will damage their business.
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:44 PM   #68
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

If anyone needs to apologize it is me. While I feel it was a minor mistake on my part I do feel I should of given 2+2 the courtesy of a private contact (email or PM) before making this post. I really was not thinking at the time.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:48 PM   #69
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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I'll apologize on behalf of the website. If I remember correctly, they contacted us and it didn't occur to me to research them before accepting advertising. We've never had any issues like this with other sponsors.

However, more importantly, I really do want to know if anyone is denied a cashout. I don't know what I will do in that event, but I'll do something.

Second, oddsmaker is still communicating with me a little, asking how they can make things right. I'm sure that some of you will have suggestions.

If they are under new management, I believe they have the right to address the complaints before I start making sticky posts which will damage their business.
Thanks Mat. Well done.

I continue to support this website because of people like you. I hope your class is contagious!

Josh
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Old 09-28-2007, 04:26 PM   #70
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

Mat,

Not that this is of any consolation and purely a random story, but BetRoyal (known for shady ways) has used the "new management" ruse numerous times on me personally as well as others in a variety of formats. Whether to explain slow cashouts ("The old manager left a huge amount of unpaid cashouts and we're trying to catch up") or to try to get you to redeposit. I think it may be a fairly std MO for scam books to continually claim new management.
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Old 09-28-2007, 06:39 PM   #71
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

I agree with Thremp here. My angle being, we have a company with a known dubious history, so why should we even believe they are under new management? I mean, what else are they going to say, "Yeah that was us that scammed all those customers, and we're going to keep doing it." In this industry, reputation is everything, and they've ruined theirs. The only way they build trust is to behave from here on, because right now, we have no reason to believe anything they say.

On a side note, I hope Mason gives Mat a raise, as Mat is clearly needed at 2+2.
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Old 09-28-2007, 06:52 PM   #72
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

I wish my last name was Malmuth
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:13 PM   #73
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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Oddsmaker.com is under new management. Beginning in March 2007, we have been making significant changes to improve the overall quality of service we provide to our customers.
There are plenty of recent complaints against their company. But at least their are also some low to mid four figure cash outs actually being paid too.
Based on their history though I would avoid them for certain.
I posted a link already to that guy that who is probably getting stiffed for his $100K jackpot at their parent company BetUSA. If they really want to turn things around - pay that poor man his money, you know how many people are pulling for him to get paid - that story is not going away.
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Old 09-28-2007, 07:31 PM   #74
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

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As for you and your insults, that won't work on me. Again, if you think I'm dishonest and run a dishonest company, I wouldn't post here or participate here in any way. Keep in mind that by participating here, you are supporting me personally no matter what you may claim.

MM
Since Mat has apologized, I think I'm done with this thread. I just want to point out that I never insulted you here (more dishonesty from Mason!!). And, again, dishonesty isn't a matter of opinion...it's a matter of fact. Your continued urges to get me to stop supporting you shows that you do indeed agree that you are dishonest, though.

Josh
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:09 PM   #75
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Re: Whats up with the Odds maker bannner?

any response from oddsmaker yet regarding any of this?
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