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Old 01-29-2020, 12:48 PM   #51
RichGangi
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Re: The Well - Like

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Originally Posted by Like View Post
I was a PPH bookie before I started betting. Its a nightmare. If youre lucky enough to get it off the ground and to be big enough to make decent money you need a lot of players, like more than 20 (and thats just to get going with real money). And the typical sports bettor isnt like me and you. Picture the alone guys in horse racing tracks. Thats now your clientele.

You need agents who you have to really watch, you gotta chase dead beats around constantly, you gotta watch the screen all the time. And laying off isnt even close to as easy as you describe. You need a lot of liquid cash on you to cover everything and you can never be late paying anyone. So I dunno anyone that can carry a 6 figure balance online and have enough to cover a book. Plus noobs like to put in bets right before game time so you have to watch like a hawk just to arb. You get stiffed and free rolled constantly, youre always losing players and having to get more. People CRY to you. You have a small but constant fear of getting arressted 24/7. You like to think of a player as a 'whale' business man who can afford to dust off 50k a year betting cuz its fun, but those guys are few and far between. Its almost always a kid betting 50 bucks at a time or an old scummy guy firing and youre 50/50 on whether or not youre getting free rolled.


Ive met a few guys that seem really suited to it and do it well but almost everyone Ive known whos done it has burned out from it after a few years, at best. They usually go bust before that. Actually theres a guy who works at barstool now behind the scenes that used to take my action
This sums up the impression I got very well. I saw what people had to deal with....no thanks, I'll stick to placing the bets.

Cool well, thanks for taking the time.

Last edited by RichGangi; 01-29-2020 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 01-29-2020, 01:19 PM   #52
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Re: The Well - Like

How did you keep track of all your accounts?
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Old 01-29-2020, 02:06 PM   #53
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Re: The Well - Like

Pretty easy. I bookmark each one and the login and PW are saved on my comp. Whats harder to keep track of is who is on which account and what percentage they have. I have a pretty simple and effective solution to this though. I send myself an email with every account and all its info and just keep that updated everytime something changes. Works well.
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:31 PM   #54
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Re: The Well - Like

Why do you think some of the best posters on this board think your an idiot?

Hopefully, you take this on merit rather than a dig.
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Old 01-30-2020, 03:01 AM   #55
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Re: The Well - Like

Did you use a robot or you actually put In every bet manually? Bookies always claim cheating when its through a robot

Last edited by CHRONICFEVER; 01-30-2020 at 03:06 AM.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:23 AM   #56
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Re: The Well - Like

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Did you use a robot or you actually put In every bet manually? Bookies always claim cheating when its through a robot
hey whats up chronic.

Ive never used any sort of manual assistance for bets. Everything is done by hand. And I would never do it either, its just an open invitation to get free rolled/stolen from.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:27 PM   #57
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Re: The Well - Like

Follow up question to that

How many misclicks would you say lifetime?

And if you could break it down into misclicks you noticed and fixed...i.e.

You wanted to bet a prop for 500 but accidentally type 50, bet 50 on it, notice and go back and bet 450

vs

You don't notice and only see it later when checking your results, like wtf I should be up 450 more
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:35 PM   #58
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Re: The Well - Like

Misclicks are rarely a problem but thats actually another benefit to PPHs I forgot about. The few times I made a big misclick, like betting the opposite side for a ton, I called my agent quickly and got them deleted. Thats a good way to get noticed though so Id only do it if was really important, but I have done it more than a couple times.

"amount" misclicks are no big deal. Since Im usually in prop land its almost impossible to overbet anything, so if anything Ill underbet by accident and then just go back and do the right amount.

The bigger issue though is checking against misgrades. 5dimes was famous for that; grading winnings props as losers. I very rarely check things though, theres just not enough time and it would take forever. But Im sure ive been screwed on a few props before and never knew it
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:39 PM   #59
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Re: The Well - Like

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Ive never used any sort of manual assistance for bets. Everything is done by hand. And I would never do it either, its just an open invitation to get free rolled/stolen from.
When you reach a certain point, automation helps.

If you're just popping silly CPs, you can just punch those in. But if you're scraping 2% off of mispriced derivatives or stale lines, line scrapers are invaluable. I don't do much automated betting anymore, but I work with several partners, and try to delegate as much of the actual betting as possible.

If you're betting big -- the pregame stuff with your own analysis, you need a ton of scraper support just for the data.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:46 PM   #60
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Re: The Well - Like

Favourite Sb poster

Leave favourite Sb poster

If you could fight any poster, who would it be? Do you think you would win?

How many DODGE RAMs do you own? Which year(s)?

Is there some amount of money that you would have stayed and bet full-time and just sold the family business, or left it to someone else? Say, in terms of yearly winnings.
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Old 01-30-2020, 01:50 PM   #61
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Re: The Well - Like

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Originally Posted by cockandbull View Post
Why do you think some of the best posters on this board think your an idiot?

Hopefully, you take this on merit rather than a dig.
Like will be the first to say he's not the most technically proficient bettor. He wins not because he's some super sharp (he's sharp enough) but because he's very good at building and maintaining a network of soft betting outs. That's why he deserves his own Well because it's an under-discussed important topic.

There's definitely some resentment from posters with far more technical skills who are grinding away small edges while Poogs is loading up on huge edge correlated parlays. What those posters don't realize is that hustling for outs is itself is a skill, even if that ability doesn't translate well in terms of talking shop on an internet gambling message board.

Also, he's brash and is quick to lash out over perceived slights. But aren't we all.
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Old 01-30-2020, 01:52 PM   #62
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Re: The Well - Like

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Favourite Sb poster

Leave favourite Sb poster

If you could fight any poster, who would it be? Do you think you would win?

How many DODGE RAMs do you own? Which year(s)?

Is there some amount of money that you would have stayed and bet full-time and just sold the family business, or left it to someone else? Say, in terms of yearly winnings.
fav poster: Rsigley. Honorable mentions: TomG, you, gmcarrol, Najdorf is good but a little odd, always liked wiper, greensmoke was cool.

Dont wanna get into least favorite but theres a guy who pops in and out of here and posts nothing but really cryptic nonsense. If I saw him Id know. I think his avatar is the hooded death guy with a dog? Ill remember at some point.

Oh and microBob. Lol he was the absolute worst.

Ive owned 2 dodge rams lifetime now. First one was brand new 2011 silver and I put on beefy exhaust and awesome black wheels. Loved that truck but I totaled it on the highway. Pretty scary actually...spun out in the snow and went backwards across the whole highway and hit the guardrail with the rear. I bounced off and ended up facing forward so I just kept going and got off the next exit. It ended up being totaled.

Now I have a 2014 black dodge ram with no cool wheels or exhaust

I think my truck modding days are behind me, until I get to old man status.

Im not sure about that last question. I loved betting professionally for a while but it was lonely. I was making lots of money and I was doing what I loved but I wasnt happy. It was confusing. If anything, I wish my SB success had happened like 4 or 5 years later in my life. I was probably too young to really handle it and I def suffered from 'imposter syndrome'. I always had this thought in the back of my head that I was just getting lucky all this time and the huge correction was around the corner.
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:07 PM   #63
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Re: The Well - Like

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Like will be the first to say he's not the most technically proficient bettor. He wins not because he's some super sharp (he's sharp enough) but because he's very good at building and maintaining a network of soft betting outs. That's why he deserves his own Well because it's an under-discussed important topic.

There's definitely some resentment from posters with far more technical skills who are grinding away small edges while Poogs is loading up on huge edge correlated parlays. What those posters don't realize is that hustling for outs is itself is a skill, even if that ability doesn't translate well in terms of talking shop on an internet gambling message board.

Also, he's brash and is quick to lash out over perceived slights. But aren't we all.

Yea I refuse to answer that question from a lurker but from TomG I will.

Compared to the super sharp guys here, I am an idiot (and so is most everyone else.) I dont have any confusion about why Ive had success betting sports and why I get to do a well, and it isnt because im some math or data whiz. Its because Ive been able to stay in action for over a decade feasting on super, SUPER soft accounts. And like TomG said, that is absolutely 100% a skill.

And while the sharp guys might think im an idiot, I think anyone would have to give me at least a modicum of respect for just being able to keep it going this long. When I started posting here it was always "yea beating props is easy, youre picking the lowest hanging fruit, everyone can do it, but youll get banned everywhere quickly and when you actually have to bet straights youll get killed". I knew that modeling straights was pretty much out of the question for me, so I decided that as long as I can keep the CP/prop/stale line stuff going Id be ok. And Im still at it, 15ish years later.

I also sometimes look back at my old posts and cringe. I took everything way too serious and personal and didnt even have a clue about what I didnt know (which was a ton.) And no one ever likes me at first. I make very bad first impressions but after enough time people tend to like me. Its always been that way for me for girls and dudez
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:25 PM   #64
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Re: The Well - Like

The average IQ of the regs in this forum is just much higher than other places.
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:49 PM   #65
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Re: The Well - Like

keeping outs and getting locals is definitley a hustle and a skill . I know a couple of guys that make 7 figures a year doing this kind of stuff . its a headache dealing with stiffs and whatnot but def need to have the skin and the swag to swing it

and nice to see you've got a different view on life etc...
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:56 PM   #66
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Re: The Well - Like

would it be +ev to blindly bet props that are off from pinnacle and bookmaker by 10-25c?


When some1 gives u an acct is it always 50/50 action split or what other types of deals are there. Ive heard of ppl getting 30% freerolls on net profit and stuff like that
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Old 01-30-2020, 08:58 PM   #67
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Re: The Well - Like

Well I would imagine that everyone who knows Like in real life thinks of him as some kind of sports betting savant. Random dudes at the bar, gym, parties, etc are going to be super impressed by the idea of a professional sports bettor. Then he shows up here and gets condescension? You're goddamn right I can see why his natural reaction would be to say **** off.
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Old 01-31-2020, 11:31 AM   #68
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Re: The Well - Like

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would it be +ev to blindly bet props that are off from pinnacle and bookmaker by 10-25c?


When some1 gives u an acct is it always 50/50 action split or what other types of deals are there. Ive heard of ppl getting 30% freerolls on net profit and stuff like that
Yea, probably. Although I know for sure that pinnys props are nowhere near efficient, theyre probably more accurate than whatever book youre looking at, so if you see a prop thats arbable with pinny its probably a good bet.

When I started betting props, I used to find the no vig line for all the 5dimes props and bet anything that was even a cent better. Thats obviously not a good way to do it but it did make money. I would never advise doing that now though. With props you really have to do your own work.


Im surprised there havent been more questions like your second one so far. Lot of stuff about dealing with stiffs but like Ive said, thats really not a big issue. Setting up deals though is, and I can go into it since you asked.

When you start out youll be getting your own accounts. Pretty simple; you get in contact with a bookie or agent and he sets you up with a log in, password and a weekly credited account. You bet on it, you have 100% of yourself, and you meet him every week to settle. Simple enough.

The next "step" would be sharing accounts. Lets say you know another guy or group that does the same thing as you, but maybe they bet some straights and more team totals as well as props, and maybe the props they bet are different than what you typically get. So you share the account with them. The bookie has no idea there is anyone but you on the account, but you give them access and tell them they have, say, 75% of their action on there. So you have 25% of their action and 100% of your own. You can even put 3 or more people/groups on the same account.

Now one step further, lets say youve been at this for a while and now have people getting you accounts. So your guy gives you an account and youll typically have about 60-70% of yourself. Then you can even share that one as well (no one else needs to know if you dont want to tell anyone), giving your sharp group say, 50% of themselves. So if you had 70% to start with, now you have 70% of yourself and 20% of your sharp friends action.

You can do this with every account you have, so every account has like 2 or 3 sharps on it including yourself, all (hopefully) betting different things and not at war with each other over available credit. Its almost like turning one account into 2 if you have really good sharps that you work with, who will also be getting you accounts to share (hopefully)
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Old 01-31-2020, 12:26 PM   #69
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Re: The Well - Like

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Well I would imagine that everyone who knows Like in real life thinks of him as some kind of sports betting savant. Random dudes at the bar, gym, parties, etc are going to be super impressed by the idea of a professional sports bettor. Then he shows up here and gets condescension? You're goddamn right I can see why his natural reaction would be to say **** off.
This really nails the experience of not being part of the community in real life and then logging on to 2p2
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Old 01-31-2020, 12:53 PM   #70
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Re: The Well - Like

I'm 0 for 1 in my experience with PPH books.

Popular guy on gambling twitter hooked me up with this bookie. I deposit 5k, run it up to 13k, he closes my account and refuses to pay.

Is there anything I can do in this situation? Do you have any experience dealing with PPH in other states?

I'm in Canada, I think this bookie is in Georgia. All I got is his name and number.
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Old 01-31-2020, 02:19 PM   #71
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Re: The Well - Like

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I'm 0 for 1 in my experience with PPH books.

Popular guy on gambling twitter hooked me up with this bookie. I deposit 5k, run it up to 13k, he closes my account and refuses to pay.

Is there anything I can do in this situation? Do you have any experience dealing with PPH in other states?

I'm in Canada, I think this bookie is in Georgia. All I got is his name and number.
yikes. This is bad all around.

First off, gambling twitter sucks. Ive tried but I never made any real connections from twitter at all and Ive found that whole 'subculture' to be very fake. Lots of frauds in the gambling twitter world and you learn pretty quick that just because some seems popular in their little bubble or have a lot of followers, it really doesnt mean anything.

So you got an account from a stranger and deposited 5k. Not a good move my friend. Not good at all. First off, lets not throw PPH's under the bus when this doesnt sound like a PPH book at all. At least not that Ive seen. Ive never seen or heard of PPHs that even take deposits. Did you actually deposit with a credit card or paypal or something? Or did you just have to post up and still used credit?

Pretty basic rules here; never deposit. Ever. Posting up is different (even that I wouldnt do), but I wouldnt deposit onto any site that wasnt a legit offshore one. Depositing into an account you got from a twitter-stranger in a different country is like another level of bad idea. Then depositing 5k on your first deposit! Thats 3 levels of bad.

But then you let it get to 13k?? Thats the final level of bad. It sounds like you just got scammed - I wouldnt lump PPH's in with this.

Give me some more info...did he give you a reason for not paying or did he just vanish? How long were you there for? I assume you never settled anything, correct? The more info the better. Youre prob out of luck but I have had actually decent success in the past in negotiating a stiff and getting some percentage or SOMETHING out of a stiff
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Old 01-31-2020, 04:30 PM   #72
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Re: The Well - Like

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yikes. This is bad all around.

First off, gambling twitter sucks. Ive tried but I never made any real connections from twitter at all and Ive found that whole 'subculture' to be very fake. Lots of frauds in the gambling twitter world and you learn pretty quick that just because some seems popular in their little bubble or have a lot of followers, it really doesnt mean anything.

So you got an account from a stranger and deposited 5k. Not a good move my friend. Not good at all. First off, lets not throw PPH's under the bus when this doesnt sound like a PPH book at all. At least not that Ive seen. Ive never seen or heard of PPHs that even take deposits. Did you actually deposit with a credit card or paypal or something? Or did you just have to post up and still used credit?

Pretty basic rules here; never deposit. Ever. Posting up is different (even that I wouldnt do), but I wouldnt deposit onto any site that wasnt a legit offshore one. Depositing into an account you got from a twitter-stranger in a different country is like another level of bad idea. Then depositing 5k on your first deposit! Thats 3 levels of bad.

But then you let it get to 13k?? Thats the final level of bad. It sounds like you just got scammed - I wouldnt lump PPH's in with this.

Give me some more info...did he give you a reason for not paying or did he just vanish? How long were you there for? I assume you never settled anything, correct? The more info the better. Youre prob out of luck but I have had actually decent success in the past in negotiating a stiff and getting some percentage or SOMETHING out of a stiff
Yea I knew very little about PPH books when this started. Betting on credit was a foreign concept to me so depositing seemed normal. I still can't imagine a PPH in another country letting a stranger bet on credit.

They operate under the http://bwc.ag/ skin. Isn't that PPH?

I sent via Transferwise to my twitter contact and he passed that over to the PPH guy.

This started in late April. My account got up to 12.7k and I requested a 5k withdrawal in July. He kept giving me the runaround and then passed me off to his brother, "he's going to send to you on bookmaker, my brother he's my backer".

Same story with his bro, kept asking me where to send on all sorts of payment methods without sending anything. Then this

"You'll get your 5k back as you are the same guy who stiffed me
100% same $
2016"

"I didn't take your deposit
So I don't owe you a ****n thing
Let me show you my Cris account
490k
I could give two ****s"

Obviously I never stiffed anyone. Idk if this is a genuine mistake on their part of they're just making things up so they don't have to pay me.
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Old 01-31-2020, 10:55 PM   #73
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Re: The Well - Like

Honestly, I would assume it's the original guy who made the introduction and you're dealing with his sock puppets

This is new to me but I'm guessing his online reputation is worth something to him so you can dm him about the situation and if he refuses to get involved start a slander campaign against him.

Create a website using his name, post it on sportsbetting forums, create a Twitter bot to message and @ all his followers telling them about the scam.

You have a lot of options here. Even if the bookie is legitimately someone else, he's 100% part of the scam. Him accepting the money confirms his role as the bank.
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Old 02-01-2020, 04:39 AM   #74
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Re: The Well - Like

Amazing read! Thanks very much for doing this well, your stories are incredibly entertaining!
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Old 02-01-2020, 06:50 AM   #75
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Re: The Well - Like

What's the standard personality type of the average PPH bookie? Do you have any insight as to how they operate and balance their profession with their personal lives?
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