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Types of Bettors/Gamblers Types of Bettors/Gamblers

07-18-2019 , 04:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NajdorfDefense
Stuey Ungar Winning at Gin & Life Research Corp
lol.

I get that figure from SharkScope fyi, and it's a lot higher than what I used to believe.
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07-18-2019 , 10:47 AM
dont you have to play a certain number of hands to even qualify for sharkscope? Which only tracks tourneys?
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07-18-2019 , 02:22 PM
Pro poker players provide a service by filling a seat required to play a game that many find entertaining. Pro sports bettors provide little/no value to anyone. The fact they are so readily barred from betting establishments demonstrates how little they have to offer (Liquidity tho? Why don't you use that liquidity you're claiming to provide to remove the bookmaker's boot as they kick your ass out). By that standard poker players are superior to sports bettors so I say us cocksure sports bettors really need to shut the **** up and go clean a real board.
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07-18-2019 , 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Like
In poker youre pretty much taking money from poor people (possibly less directly)
I don't agree with this, it's only true at specific cardrooms (Tampa Greyhound comes to mind). Most of the money flows from middle-class people with savings to spare. Not that this is much better from a macroeconomic perspective.

Also live poker doesn't damage people's finances. For instance a poor person playing poker should probably be doing other things with the money, but based on their tendency to shortstack and have a tight stoploss & profit target, I don't think poker makes them poorer. In general I don't think people wreck their lives with live poker, whereas people absolutely wreck their lives with sportsbetting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomG
Pro sports bettors provide little/no value to anyone.
They make the lines sharper which is good for the recs, because otherwise recs would be betting the wrong sides of inaccurate lines.

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Originally Posted by BOLplayer
Sure. Good thing his main game wasn't poker. If it suits you better, think Gus Hansen, Tom Dwan, or isildur1.
Lol of all the examples you could have given, you picked the WOAT degen Stu Ungar, the welcher Tom Dwan, and ... Gus Hansen lmao.

I'll help you out: Phil Galfond, Jonas Mols, Linus Loeliger, Timofey Kuznetsov

But no one is saying there are no intelligent poker players. Playing at the level of the 4 people I named is harder than creating winning sports models (I'm pretty certain) and wayyy harder than steam-chasing and exploiting soft books. But being a run-of-the-mill live poker grinder isn't so hard, even today.
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07-18-2019 , 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by heehaww
They make the lines sharper which is good for the recs, because otherwise recs would be betting the wrong sides of inaccurate lines.
Squares are probably around nearly as likely to be on the right side of a mispriced widely available line as on the wrong side. And square books like Bovada move lines to take advantage of square tendencies anyway.

Anyway, winning/pro sports bettors who bet offshore do provide value to a nation by re-shoring money that would otherwise be offshore.
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07-18-2019 , 06:30 PM
Not the TomG I once knew. The one who, in 2012, wrote:

"Thousands of degenerate Americans are pissing away their money into **** Costa Rican sportsbooks every day. It's my duty as an American to bring that money back onto our soil."

True words then, and they're still true now. You've grown soft. What happened?
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07-18-2019 , 07:59 PM
So we agree at the micro-level pro sports betting provides zero (likely negative) societal value.

At the macro level, the sheer scale of the goal of trying to re-patriate "lost" American dollars is laughable. We're talking drops out of a huge bucket of money. Anyway, what do you think bookmakers do with those American dollars they won? They turn around and buy/invest in American goods (what else are dollars good for?) so the money is never really "lost" in the first place.

Enjoy Arby's.
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07-19-2019 , 12:09 AM
Poker really disgusts me. I made several hundred dollars an hour for a handful of years when that was an easy thing to do. I was unhappy the entire time. I had so much contempt for all the other poker players. I was friendly with a few of the well known pros at the time and I enjoyed their company. But even those guys were mostly cheaters and deadbeats it turned out. When I think about all the morons I beat heads up I imagine an endless trail of misery.

I look back much more fondly on my time sports betting, even though I had a fraction of the success that I had in poker. Sports betting is wholesome entertainment for most people that do it. When people learn I used to be a professional gambler, I tell them to avoid poker like the plague, but encourage them to have fun putting $50 on a boxing match or Sunday Night Football.
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07-19-2019 , 02:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomG
So we agree at the micro-level pro sports betting provides zero (likely negative) societal value.

At the macro level, the sheer scale of the goal of trying to re-patriate "lost" American dollars is laughable. We're talking drops out of a huge bucket of money. Anyway, what do you think bookmakers do with those American dollars they won? They turn around and buy/invest in American goods (what else are dollars good for?) so the money is never really "lost" in the first place.

Enjoy Arby's.
Yeah I don't think he has any understanding at all of economics. "put a dent in the flow" of money from poor to rich people lol, he's Robin Hood!! Could you explain what you mean by the Arby's?
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07-19-2019 , 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by hedgie43
Squares are probably around nearly as likely to be on the right side of a mispriced widely available line as on the wrong side. And square books like Bovada move lines to take advantage of square tendencies anyway.
Wouldn't all books have lines like Bovada's if it weren't for sharps?
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07-19-2019 , 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomG
So we agree at the micro-level pro sports betting provides zero (likely negative) societal value.
I wouldn't agree. At the micro-level, it is Robinhood style wealth redistribution. But it actually goes further than that, when you consider that the heads of these books aren't just filthy rich, but they're also scumbags that pose a threat to western civilisation as we know it. In the case of the Latin American books it is simple: they're inherently pernicious, as Latin America was a mistake and nothing good has ever come out of their society. Thus, any money getting taken out of Pinny, CRIS, BOL, and whatever other scum LA books can be considered a win.

Next, we have the Euro books. We know that many of them are scum as well. Bet365 and the Coates family have been donating to Labour for years, so we see they are actively trying to undermine western civilisation, and they do not even try to hide it. Again, the less money going their way, the better. Not to mention that Denise is the anti-christ and second coming of Hitler.

Intertops, another Euro site based out of Germany -- I don't know much about their ownership but I have on occasion been in touch with a rep named Muhammad so you may draw your own conclusions about their company values and their desired future for Germany. I think we can all agree, the less money going into such socially irresponsible businesses, the better.

Now, that transfer of wealth out of evil hands only benefits society if it is transferred into better hands. There is the occasional ****-up, like rito, who just coughs up the money right back into Latin American hands, but people like Poogs, and myself, I'd like to think, put the money towards bettering society. We support young and beautiful women, we improve neighbourhoods, we do not buy from companies like Nike who want to tear down the fabric of civilisation. We are an inspiration to those around us, that things are not so bad as they appear. When you increase the budget of informed citizens, you empower not only their lives, but the lives of those around them.

No, we can never compete with the Soros' of the world. Call it a drop in a huge bucket if you want. But if there are a few hundred pro sports bettors scattered around the world, living a high quality of life, distributing funds to better places, they are the change that we would all like to see. It has to start somewhere. And this current crop of pros has been around only 10-20 years. Who knows what the future holds. Maybe some day, me and Arby will make a meaningful contribution towards curbing African birth rates and saving the black-footed cat. Maybe rsigley will go full Uncle Ted, mail a bomb to Mutti, put her out of her misery and stop the destruction of Europe. It is too early to say what the future holds. But I can tell you with certainty, that I'd rather that money be in Poogs, Arby's, or sigley's wallet, than in Sean Creighton's (RIP). No doubt about that one.
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07-19-2019 , 11:32 AM
I spend 95% of my money in USA. Don't you live in Russia hits?
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07-19-2019 , 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomG
So we agree at the micro-level pro sports betting provides zero (likely negative) societal value.

At the macro level, the sheer scale of the goal of trying to re-patriate "lost" American dollars is laughable. We're talking drops out of a huge bucket of money. Anyway, what do you think bookmakers do with those American dollars they won? They turn around and buy/invest in American goods (what else are dollars good for?) so the money is never really "lost" in the first place.

Enjoy Arby's.
I dont know about that. Of course anything we're talking about is drops in the bucket compared to the entire American economy. But thats what we're talking about...those specific drops. And yea Im sure a big chunk of what they books make does get reinvested back in America, but not all of it. 100% of what someone like me makes goes directly into our economy, most of it into my local economy. Sure you can argue that with the scale none of this matters much at all but thats a different argument
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07-19-2019 , 04:52 PM
I guess most of you don't follow the Nihilist Arby's twitter acc't. It's amazing.
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07-20-2019 , 01:11 PM
i only win money from people who can afford it

it is my number 1 rule while gambling and think if we all did the same then people would realise that gambling is not just for people who dont care about were money is from, can they afford to lose the money and are the good looking.
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07-21-2019 , 05:14 AM
online poker/recognition is not 100% in your hands loll if the river is not neutral or in favor of your opponent, you pretty much suck lol and ist not nice i can tell you that!

betting on sports is so much more rewarding as well as entertaining, the ceiling is limitless ...for me i feel is higher then poker because i was deep in sports early in life ! theres no RNG , super user....or better players trying to block/shut you down on your way up !
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07-22-2019 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomG
Pro poker players provide a service by filling a seat required to play a game that many find entertaining. Pro sports bettors provide little/no value to anyone. The fact they are so readily barred from betting establishments demonstrates how little they have to offer (Liquidity tho? Why don't you use that liquidity you're claiming to provide to remove the bookmaker's boot as they kick your ass out). By that standard poker players are superior to sports bettors so I say us cocksure sports bettors really need to shut the **** up and go clean a real board.
Poker players can get barred for winning too though that's mostly online, we have just as little to offer most times so I'm doubting the superiority thing. For live games one or a few 'pros' have been known to get staff to make a table private...which is effectively the same thing just on a smaller scale.
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07-22-2019 , 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Like
dont you have to play a certain number of hands to even qualify for sharkscope? Which only tracks tourneys?
Hands mean nothing for sharkscope, it only tracks tournament/sng results...and not very well at that these days. It also has/had issues with re-entry mtts which are far more common these days so depending on how much someone re-enters, their profit/losses will be inaccurate. Game it right and you can make it look like you're crushing, or the opposite to make it look like you've lost more / won less.
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07-22-2019 , 02:27 PM
So in other words its a completely inaccurate view of a small segment of online poker
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07-22-2019 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravepitt
online poker/recognition is not 100% in your hands loll if the river is not neutral or in favor of your opponent, you pretty much suck lol and ist not nice i can tell you that!

betting on sports is so much more rewarding as well as entertaining, the ceiling is limitless ...for me i feel is higher then poker because i was deep in sports early in life ! theres no RNG , super user....or better players trying to block/shut you down on your way up !
lol yea no one and nothing in sports will ever try to block you from making bets in sports betting!

If this were true we'd all be multi- billionaires
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07-22-2019 , 03:35 PM
Sharkscope used to track cash games fyi
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07-23-2019 , 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Like
So in other words its a completely inaccurate view of a small segment of online poker
Pretty much yes, also people can reset their stats anytime or completely block their stats from showing up.

One of the only few decent metrics a few years back was how many people got restricted on Merge/Carbon, but we don't have exact numbers...however the rough estimates were all extremely small %-wise. One issue though was that some of the profitable players got to stay, likely because they had ties through affiliates or whoever...or punted away enough of their profits on sports/casino?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NajdorfDefense
Waiting for the next poker boom is like waiting for the next bowling boom.
This year's WSOP had the second-most entries ever at 8569, the peak at 2006 was 8773. Only 839 when Moneymaker won in 2003, when Raymer won in 2004 - it was 2,576. In 2005 it was 5619.

Over the past 5 years entries have gone up by a significant margin each and every year. Trend looks good enough to me at least.

Given how 100% sure you sound that it's dead, care to bet on next years?

Last edited by lotuspod2; 07-23-2019 at 04:25 AM.
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07-23-2019 , 12:28 PM
I hate to derail this interesting topic even further, but:

WSOP entries are not indicative of the health of poker. That said, poker is experiencing its first resurgence since 2011 thanks entirely to Bitcoin. I expect an upward trend in players from here until infinity.
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07-23-2019 , 01:59 PM
After your sharkscope comment I think youve lost the credibility to speak as an authority on what metrics are or arent indicative of the health of poker. Also, I have made no claims about the health of poker at all, but I would bet that WSOP entries correlate pretty closely with the publics general interest in poker. Id 100% be more confident in that, than thinking 30% of all poker players are long term winners because I saw it on shark scope. Which, as weve all learned, only tracks online tournaments, can be opted out of and/or be reset anytime someone wants to and has other issues brought up in here
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07-23-2019 , 02:05 PM
okay dude
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