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Old 12-03-2017, 07:42 AM   #1
runthesims
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sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

This guys been playing since 2005, this poker graph is 2013 onwards, so one would wonder how much he crushed and he did crush from 2005 to 2012 while the games were so much easier. How would top sports players earnings compare to a player like this?


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I am quitting poker and want to share my graph now that I don't need to worry about killing any potential action I might get. I always enjoyed seeing inspiring graphs posted on 2p2, so I'm happy to contribute mine. These are my results over the past 5 years. I did this without ever really working on my game away from the tables, so its still possible to be a lazy poker player and make money in today's games. In the graph, I removed 100/200 and 200/400 because they distort the graph too much and aren't very indicative of my real results since I sell a large % when I play there. Also, please don't send me any coaching requests, I am not interested.




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Old 12-03-2017, 07:57 AM   #2
The IRS
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

There are people who make that much in an average month betting sports; still, sick graph...25 bb/100 that is disgusting.
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:01 AM   #3
runthesims
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

When you say there are people making that much a month, are you talking about one or two huge syndicates, or a greater number of pros, including pros who bet that much solo, as in on their own and are not part of any syndicate?
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Old 12-03-2017, 08:51 AM   #4
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

The most successful people make more money sports betting than poker and yes that includes people who aren't part of a syndicate, there are probably a similar number of people grinding out 30-70k a year in poker vs sports, but more people making high seven figures plus in sports betting by a lot.

That's a hell of a sick graph though
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:28 AM   #5
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

Who are all these sports bettors making high seven figures that you know of? I call BS.
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:37 AM   #6
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

It pains me to point this out, but that graph is very obviously fake.

lol SwoopAE

I'd be shocked if there is anyone on the planet who isn't running a syndicate who is pulling in more than 500k a year in EV (which is obviously higher than actual earnings if they're betting Kelly).

I suppose there are a handful of NFL syndicates that could do high 7. Oh. And bookies. I'm sure The Greek killed it on CBB back when he was taking infinite action on certain sides.
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:49 AM   #7
runthesims
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

The graph is 100% legit, the guy owns every heads up lobby every poker site.
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:22 AM   #8
runthesims
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

Btw there are people who average 7 million a month 80 to 100 million a year?

Are you talking about Zeljko?
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Old 12-03-2017, 05:59 PM   #9
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

not sure how they compare but the majority of successful sports bettors are at least not retarded so they've got that going for them which is nice
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Old 12-03-2017, 11:41 PM   #10
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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The graph is 100% legit, the guy owns every heads up lobby every poker site.
he also doesn't run a hud and does zero off table study
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:14 PM   #11
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

I have no idea what the maniacs betting blue circled NFL/soccer 10-20 times per game are actually making, but based on when/how much lines in other markets are moving, it's unlikely there are many people pulling in 7 figs annually these days. I don't even really know what to expect going forward on my end. Hopefully >30k a month.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:39 AM   #12
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

Ive done well using a middling strategy sports betting and a friend of mine has done ok playing poker. My friend grinded out $25k per year over a few years playing 4 hours heads up per day.

this is only relevant for my sports betting strategy making earning a bit more than a school teacher.


It is now illegal in our country to play online poker, so..... sports betting wins that one.

From my experiences, it is far easier to consistently find big +ev bets on sports than in poker. But the biggest issue is getting large volumes on bets. +ev bets are easy to find, to do well in sports betting 70% of the required skill is finding ways to bet, 20% is understanding what proportion of your roll to bet, the remainder being finding +ev bets .

I made about 4x what my friend made and my bankroll was double the size. That over a period of 3 or so years, with a very large number of bets/hands played.

In sports betting I generally bet in advance of the game start, I usually dont watch the games and I may have 10-50 different bets in a day, where I check all the results at the same time. Its just hard to tilt.

My friend generally risked 1% of his roll per buy in, but sometimes he would lose 4/5 buyins to the same opponent and if he is little titled his on the spot decision making ability goes downhill pretty quickly.

In sports betting though, I really dont need to think too much when im placing a bet, lines/prices go into excel, a few calcs are done, I determine the price im getting and compare that to what I previously determined to be the correct price. Then generally the bookies limits will determine what proportion of my roll to risk. Its simple, I cant get tilted.

Emotionally sports betting is easier, tilting just doesn't happen in the same way and your ego is rarely on the line.

Im not too sure how a professional handicapper deals with tilt or roll swings or how big a roll is required to make 100k yearly.
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Old 12-06-2017, 05:13 PM   #13
The IRS
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

My understanding is that the US sports market is tiny compared to any kind of reasonable size soccer league at all and the biggest crushers are all beating soccer, of course soccer is probably also way tougher to beat than US sports.

From my understanding US PPH is exploding but offshore it is turning into a race to the bottom. Limits are being slashed everywhere, some markets on Pinnacle the limits are 10% of what they were, and some books that used to accept ok action for a while now cut you off after 1 day of sharp plays. And in general it's just people betting earlier and sharper than before. I used to beat up on those 300 max limit markets on Pinnacle. I would throw together a model in a week or so that was way better than whatever they were using. Hitting all the random books that copied you could get an ok amount down. Now I don't even bother with those as the lines are pretty reasonable. You would think that nobody would bother betting 100 bucks a click but you see in a lot of them now 3-4 rebets right at the open, value is mostly gone from there. This year I only made money on decent size markets with one notable exception, the tiny markets used to be a cash cow but no more.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:43 PM   #14
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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My understanding is that the US sports market is tiny compared to any kind of reasonable size soccer league at all and the biggest crushers are all beating soccer, of course soccer is probably also way tougher to beat than US sports.
US sports kind of a generality no? NFL market is bigger than anything but UCL and WC. There's no way it's any easy either, lines move the same.


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Originally Posted by The IRS View Post
From my understanding US PPH is exploding but offshore it is turning into a race to the bottom. Limits are being slashed everywhere, some markets on Pinnacle the limits are 10% of what they were, and some books that used to accept ok action for a while now cut you off after 1 day of sharp plays.
Other than College Football and Basketball what limits have gone down a lot at pinny (and that was 5 years ago when their agents were busted in USA)?

Any PPH depends on the bookie and none of these clowns will take winning action on anything.


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I used to beat up on those 300 max limit markets on Pinnacle. I would throw together a model in a week or so that was way better than whatever they were using. Hitting all the random books that copied you could get an ok amount down. Now I don't even bother with those as the lines are pretty reasonable. You would think that nobody would bother betting 100 bucks a click but you see in a lot of them now 3-4 rebets right at the open, value is mostly gone from there. This year I only made money on decent size markets with one notable exception, the tiny markets used to be a cash cow but no more.
Lines are definitely sharper on a bunch of stuff, but pinny has actually increased limits on every int basketball league in the past year (vig is up too)


Still don't see where anyone is going to be making 7M a month
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:25 AM   #15
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

they bet a lot and in large amounts

not hard if youre a winner
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:01 PM   #16
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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they bet a lot and in large amounts

not hard if youre a winner
Your combination of ignorance and arrogance is insufferable. You're by far the worst poster here. Go away.
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:23 PM   #17
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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Your combination of ignorance and arrogance is insufferable. You're by far the worst poster here. Go away.
arrogance ? i never said i am but if i could make multiple winning models over big markets then how isnt it possible?

are you suggesting that there is no syndicate turning over 200 million per anum?
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:27 PM   #18
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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arrogance ? i never said i am but if i could make multiple winning models over big markets then how isnt it possible?

are you suggesting that there is no syndicate turning over 200 million per anum?
Go bet a few milly with asianconnect and report back how it goes
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:32 PM   #19
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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arrogance ? i never said i am but if i could make multiple winning models over big markets then how isnt it possible?

are you suggesting that there is no syndicate turning over 200 million per anum?
what you think a realistic ROI is for 200M a year?
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Old 12-08-2017, 12:59 PM   #20
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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Go bet a few milly with asianconnect and report back how it goes
No way to get down big on major markets without going through these guys
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:07 PM   #21
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

This comparison cant be made.No one knows who are the top earners in sports betting

What is indeed unlikely is that there are many individual sports bettor earning the figures talked about in this thread
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Old 12-08-2017, 01:31 PM   #22
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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arrogance ? i never said i am but if i could make multiple winning models over big markets then how isnt it possible?

are you suggesting that there is no syndicate turning over 200 million per anum?
All I'm suggesting is you have no idea what you're talking about, and have now openly admitted so.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:16 AM   #23
akkopower1
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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arrogance ? i never said i am but if i could make multiple winning models over big markets then how isnt it possible?

are you suggesting that there is no syndicate turning over 200 million per anum?
What type of numbers would be realistic for a decent sized syndicate running multiple gnome accounts around the globe?

Bet 40x$50k weekly at a 1% edge, pay gnomes 25% of profit and risk 1% of roll each bet.

That requires a roll of 5mill, turning over 100mill pa, making a post gnome profit of 750k. Find 80 profitable 50k bets and you get 1.5mill profit pa
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Old 12-09-2017, 11:00 AM   #24
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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Originally Posted by akkopower1 View Post
What type of numbers would be realistic for a decent sized syndicate running multiple gnome accounts around the globe?

Bet 40x$50k weekly at a 1% edge, pay gnomes 25% of profit and risk 1% of roll each bet.

That requires a roll of 5mill, turning over 100mill pa, making a post gnome profit of 750k. Find 80 profitable 50k bets and you get 1.5mill profit pa
Not sure what's the most ridiculous part of this post

1. Making only 40 bets per week
2. Getting $50k down on anything in the summer months
3. Paying gnomes 25% of profits
4. Having a 1% edge on your bets
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Old 12-09-2017, 01:32 PM   #25
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Re: sports betting vs poker how do the top earners compare?

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Originally Posted by MaxWithdrawal View Post
Not sure what's the most ridiculous part of this post

1. Making only 40 bets per week
2. Getting $50k down on anything in the summer months
3. Paying gnomes 25% of profits
4. Having a 1% edge on your bets
Depends on what exactly your "gnomes" are doing. Ive been apart of everything from 5 to 50%. I dont think 25% is "ridiculous."
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