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Old 11-14-2012, 05:46 AM   #51
Kolo Toure
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

can't blame him for getting frustrated but making that post was not wise
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:36 PM   #52
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Latest story over there though probably no big deal but will report. BetIslands has now "acquired" 7RedSports. Some back story here:

In early Feb 2012 there was rumour from a credible source EZStreet, BetIslands, and 7RedSports were all the same company. This was denied by Jon of BetIslands multiple times. One of the threads was locked then later reopened after drama. There were several times Jon denied this. The sites looked very similar though.

Then I don't remember the exact date (this thread might of been deleted not sure) someone showed up claiming to be an employee. Saying Jon was known as Nick at EZStreet but Jon at BetIslands and they are the same company. This was brushed off as being a disgruntled former employee making up lies. Jon continued to deny having involvement with any other books.

There was another response giving a name saying call one book as for name X, call the other asking for the same. You can reach this rep at either book they are the same. Still continued to deny connection.

Recently both sites had their software upgraded needed to use all caps password with both.

There was another thread trying to leak the real owner of BetIslands was arrested (might of matched the Pinnacle timing - and Jazz was mentioned in that indictment) perhaps neither here nor there but this attempted to tie them to other books.

Then just the other day someone notes both books play the same music when on hold.

Finally today Jon says they seen opportunity to purchase a small book and has done so. So coincidence (?) they now just purchased a book they spent 9 months denying involvement with when many people believed these books were always connected.

Again probably no big deal except EZStreet is rated D, BetIslands was originally part of Jazz group with similar low rating. BetIslands gets rating B though hosted with a company SBR has rated D as well. 7RedSports comes along and gets rated same as EZStreet D. So BetIslands is surrounded by two separate companies rated D but is rated B. There are known shills (a few who are known EZStreet Shills) that bump and rave about BetIslands at every chance they can get on SBRForum, and BetIslands has a sponsor ad on that forum. Real players influenced by shill posts join are caught in everyone bumping BI's rep and do the same. Probably harmless, but that's how the company's reputation was built.

Anyway probably no big deal here at all because have always heard BetIslands pays fast, it just shows the LOL of the ratings. Also BetIslands will be paying Cory1111 the money EZStreet owes him.

Last edited by PropPlayer; 11-15-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:20 PM   #53
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Chronic, also Brian was banned at his own request. So his choice to return is up to him.
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:39 PM   #54
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Chronic, also Brian was banned at his own request. So his choice to return is up to him.
Oh I see
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:18 PM   #55
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

I understand the issues with SBR.. The way they stick up for BOL even though they have been clearly on the decline is sickening, and reminds me of how they handled Bet Phoenix before BP stopped paying for advertising then the truth came out.

But mentioning the 30K casino dispute with Cory... do you really think Cory should get paid for that? He was banned, he came back under his mothers name and even openly admitted it in the long-ass thread about it. When poker players get banned and they come back under a different name, don't even the best sites confiscate the funds? Why should we have different expectations for Heritage?
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:28 PM   #56
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

I also wanna say that I really can't complain about SBR cause of how much they helped me on a racebook dispute in 2010. Bet Horizon tried to screw me out of $4000 on the Belmont Stakes in 2010. They only paid me $11,000 on a horse that should have paid out $15,000... Lou called and I got the money within a few days.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:57 PM   #57
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

He did not admit it. The lady is an officer in a Florida company, has a gambling connection in her past, also frequently is on cruise ships, is internet savvy and very well could have played those hands. The money that's being argued is not a significant sum to her. Cory has more reason to argue. Heritage had hand history of his play at EZStreet, so that's enough for him to feel they are colluding. Last time he wasn't paid this time his Mom.

SBR told one side of the story and left out tons of facts. Justin says the player was never in Florida. He leaves out the fact she sent cruise itinerary proving she was in Florida. Also he left out that there were multiple log-ins from the ISP cruise ship she was on uses. He never stepped in to correct incorrect statements he made, nor did he when Sheri was babbling on about cruise ship IT. There continues to be BS facts posted in that thread, for example by that cloverfield poster whose entire post history is Heritage related. There's a lot more to this story than has made the thread too.

My issue is reasonable. The dishonest spin of arbitrator of own choice. Heritage saying they were donating the money to charity and then never responding when asking what charity and if proof will be provided. The mystery expert that never showed up. The bullying tactics, stall tactics and just horrible attempt at PR. I also emailed with Justin on this. My strong read is Heritage NEVER wanted to get this right or be fair. They wanted to mug the player. There's some politics involved too that are wtf, but I'm going to save that portion for now just in case there is still some chance the two come to terms or agree on arbitration. When feel there's near no chance will write more then. Far more details here than simply concluding the facts are as Heritage says.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:21 AM   #58
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

I don't want to go back through the 67 pages... but sometime between pages 27 and 37, Corey even said "I" when he was supposed to be talking about his mother.

This isn't a sportsbook.ag type of book that always looks for reasons to confiscate money. Heritage owners have been around since the 90s, and everyone knows there affiliation with pinnacle. They are solid, and always look out for the player. Yes, they are known to limit players quick and back in the day, before they acquired some of the Bet Jamaica/Greek staff, would look for losers only, but they have always paid and always give the players the benefit of the doubt. For Mike to go this far without paying him (I don't know what they paid or how much, as I stopped paying attention to it 2 months ago), he must have very strong evidence.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:03 AM   #59
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PropPlayer View Post
He did not admit it. The lady is an officer in a Florida company, has a gambling connection in her past, also frequently is on cruise ships, is internet savvy and very well could have played those hands. The money that's being argued is not a significant sum to her. Cory has more reason to argue. Heritage had hand history of his play at EZStreet, so that's enough for him to feel they are colluding. Last time he wasn't paid this time his Mom.

SBR told one side of the story and left out tons of facts. Justin says the player was never in Florida. He leaves out the fact she sent cruise itinerary proving she was in Florida. Also he left out that there were multiple log-ins from the ISP cruise ship she was on uses. He never stepped in to correct incorrect statements he made, nor did he when Sheri was babbling on about cruise ship IT. There continues to be BS facts posted in that thread, for example by that cloverfield poster whose entire post history is Heritage related. There's a lot more to this story than has made the thread too.

My issue is reasonable. The dishonest spin of arbitrator of own choice. Heritage saying they were donating the money to charity and then never responding when asking what charity and if proof will be provided. The mystery expert that never showed up. The bullying tactics, stall tactics and just horrible attempt at PR. I also emailed with Justin on this. My strong read is Heritage NEVER wanted to get this right or be fair. They wanted to mug the player. There's some politics involved too that are wtf, but I'm going to save that portion for now just in case there is still some chance the two come to terms or agree on arbitration. When feel there's near no chance will write more then. Far more details here than simply concluding the facts are as Heritage says.
Justin claims the casino logins were not from the cruise ship here in post #1742.

http://www.roughingthepunter.com/sho...9622#post39622


"There's a lot more against the player in this dispute. It's a screwy case where the player isn't sharing his cards, but is taking pot-shots in public. There maybe a "rehearing" with a new mediator/arbitrator. If this happens, a lot of other anti-player facts will come out. But there's no point in putting them out now when the player seems to be changing his story to the known facts. When the player commits to a single set of facts, everything else can come out.

I don't want to get in a pissing match on something so tangential to what we were talking about, but I'll briefly address what you asked. Both the player and the booted player were playing at one hand per 3.3 seconds. This is certainly not absolute proof of bearding, but enough to raise eyebrows. There were no other Florida players playing at anywhere close to this speed (or accuracy). There was hard IP evidence that 1. The player did was not the player that hit the Royals (her IP in the casino sessions was not the mobile IP of the cruise boat), and all of her sessions were from Florida IPs, even when she was in New York. It's absolutely clear the player did not play the hands, and the circumstantial evidence strongly suggested that not only was there a beard, but that beard was a previously banned player.

53 deposits. Almost no book reviews fraud procedures until a withdrawal is requested, especially when a player is down. The game was definitely +EV given the bonus structure. I can send you a spreadsheet showing this. There were allegations that the DGS game was "broken", and +EV straight up. This was not proven, but it was enough to suggest banning the original player was fair, and the book would not want to take action from the player.

You can obviously argue whatever you like. In this case, it was clear that the player was a beard for Cory, Cory was banned, and no book would want this action. If you accept those 3 facts, the decision was fair."
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:07 AM   #60
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laverty View Post
even openly admitted it
and This:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laverty View Post
said "I" when he was supposed to be talking about his mother.
= same thing?

When he posted that he was in back and forth debate. On another forum he was discussing at the same time EZStreet / Heritage collusion. Not even the Heritage paid shills picked up on that. Heritage used it and no one really continued because in context of the debate it was weak. The only people who used that well after the fact were Lou and Sheri.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laverty View Post
everyone knows there affiliation with pinnacle.
I'm not sure everyone knows, we must know the story slightly different than each other. Either way yes Pinnacle was originally Heritage Sports. It sort of similar the Cleveland Browns. Old Heritage Sports doesn't = news Heritage Sports, original = Pinnacle. There are a few other books that factor in here too. But this isn't really relevant.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:19 AM   #61
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

My whole point is... Heritage has been around FOREVER, since before the beginning of online sportsbooks... And I have never heard one case of them screwing a player over. Why would they start now? Do you really believe for one second that this was Corey's mother? Given Corey's history, not with EZStreet, but the manipulation of the Western Union receipts and the fact that he was banned several times at sportsbooks for charging back, shouldn't we give Heritage the benefit of the doubt in this case? SBR has turned into a complete joke recently, but this is not one of the cases I would use against them.

The #1 worst part about SBR right now is the constant coverups of there own sponsors, while non-sponsored books continue to get front paged for the smallest incidents. I think you mentioned it in the OP and it is so blatant. They used to be a great watchdog for the industry and now look at them.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:37 AM   #62
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Why should Heritage get the benefit of the doubt. They accepted 53 deposits from the player before the account won. 53. And only when the accounts wins they check it and cry foul. Bull****.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:47 AM   #63
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
Why should Heritage get the benefit of the doubt. They accepted 53 deposits from the player before the account won. 53. And only when the accounts wins they check it and cry foul. Bull****.
As much as it sucks, I'm pretty sure thats the industry standard. No sites ask for documentation until you cash out.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:05 AM   #64
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Thanks for pointing that post out. Justin omitted many details he was privy to in his initial report. In follow up comments he then made additional assertions I don't believe the facts support. He then didn't correct anything in the discussions while he was participating, and eventually stopped posting in the thread.

I sent him an email of the way I was reading the situation and asked if true if he would please man up. The way I read (and this is perhaps my interpretation) the reasons for his ruling (which was basically default judgement) after our email exchanges, to his statement on November 7 in that thread:

"In this case, it was clear that the player was a beard for Cory, Cory was banned, and no book would want this action. If you accept those 3 facts, the decision was fair."

It sure sounds like he's changing his position to conform just the same (I skimmed there though will go back and maybe read the context, but...). There are more details regarding this dispute that have not made threads. Some Justin is aware of, a bit on the background of the player I gave him some leads, and another portion I'm near certain he's not aware. However there is no incentive for the player to give much - she's been completely jobbed by SBR. Innocent or guilty, Justin's initial ruling making sense or not, it still does not change the player was jobbed by SBR and I told Heritage direct in debate why I think they are scummy here.That's available elsewhere and doesn't need to be rehashed.

I'm not someone that defends scammers often. I don't side player in every dispute, in fact most disputes involve novice players that don't understand prop rules, or players that are scammer, so more often side book. If you follow the long thread at SBR I started off on Justin's side but said had only heard one side of the story, reached the middle hearing both and it was time passing and getting really into this dispute that the players side (based on how Heritage and SBR were playing) was the one that needed defending. I'm not arguing innocence or guilt, but rather that they've been jobbed and have little recourse. Heritage should take some of the hit for being unwilling to discuss fair resolution and playing it in PR mode the way they did. If you happen to find the name of the charity and if they'll be posting proof of the donation please do let me know.

Relevance?

SBR was this super trusted portal that this forum's FAQ linked to saying just join every high rated book for years. Tons of posters on many forums not just this one say I'm playing at a B+ book and...; so many people in the industry give high stock to those ratings as if they mean much. People link to the SBR complaints pages about a book. I did this here on 2+2 in 2007 can see others quoting SBR. But these days it appears the reporting is a lot more advertising based.

Heritage might be great but look how they handle disputes. This isn't a single example there are a couple more. Most all their players are from private book or older times, the transfers, and now new ones just come from SBR. If SBR isn't going treat players fair in a disputes against sponsors isn't it possible you'd be better off in some spots using a book that pays but they still bash? Here they're more likely to side with you in the case the rare disputes comes up, no?

Now this all in theory though because options for US players kind of really do suck now. Just saying. This isn't picking on some site just to pick on them - it is to point out to those still thinking SBRs ratings are the nuts to wake up a bit. BetOnline is stacking bonuses after players bust. Is coming no where close to meeting withdrawal times. Players had to fight or wait over hacked accounts or locked accounts accused of collusion. Heritage had a few complaints that no only didn't get reported some threads got deleted, and there's the Cory1111 issue too. SBR didn't help tremp in a dispute and are likely not to report it just because they think he's an ******* - true or not doesn't change the books actions etc. That's why imo it is worth discussing and pointing this stuff out.

Of course they do still have value. That's mentioned in the FAQ. They're good resource for players. But that doesn't change the ratings and newswires are probably best not taking at face value, and there's a lot of selling and opinion held by many that they should. Providing the information make it easier for someone to realize that.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:28 AM   #65
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Laverty, I've researched this case the best I could. This included making phone calls, doing deep background searches, getting to know the parties involved without actually speaking to them and MUCH more. After a long investigation and piecing together only facts that could be found or were know, my personal opinion: I'm NOT convinced this wasn't Helena's account. Really though my personal opinion doesn't matter at all. The way it was handled was poor.

Re: Why screw a player now. Not making firm accusations but am raising the possibility - SBRJohn could be the reason. He did have a lot of interest in that thread and it does appear with him giving the arbitration offer and Heritage Insider sticking to what the offer was that it is not outside of possibility that Walker might have been the one calling the shots.

Re: Industry standard on deposits. This might be the way most do it in the industry out of convenience. It still doesn't remove that it is their responsibility. I didn't even factor much into the case, but player side claims 53 deposits were made using the same last name as Cory.

The other question re: the above, while not having too much relevancy would it be much of a stretch to conclude this was one of their top video poker players at those stakes during this period? How many people play $25 JOB 6,000 hands per month. How many turnover that much in their casino period? Deposits match the name. Is it reasonable enough they should have known and was only carelessness if they did not. I think this could all be debated beyond just "most sites don't check". But still is a minor aspect imo.

Heritage getting most of their players from SBR, and a lot of the Greek and BetJam accounts transferred are most likely on SBR sheets too, could explain the difference in how it's being handled now. No proof of this but not beyond reason that it might be the case.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:57 AM   #66
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Back on today's topic. To the allegation EZStreet/BetIslands/7RedSports were connected, SBR general manager Bill Dozer responded a few months ago that it was just former bad employees spreading lies. The important part of his past response:

Quote:
As I said on page 1, we've met the ownership groups from both books and have seen both offices. A player can look at the servers and see they are in two different locations. If they were the same company, BetIslands wouldn't have been able to sponsor the forum as EZ owes casino winnings to players.

We don't ban real posters but we don't let people work the board for their own fun either.
Long lingering allegation and rumors and today Bet Islands just happened to acquire 7RedSports, the book they denied involvement with but were believed to have owned.Plus are now going to pay off the EZStreet debt. Nothing imo that effects players here at all (no known BI complaints at all) just the silliness of the ratings game.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:40 AM   #67
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Why do you think Heritage has gotten most of there customers from SBR? I don't see that at all.... They've been around forever and just started advertising at SBR this year. I would say more then half of there customers were acquired by the Greek/BetJM takeover.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:13 AM   #68
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

You don't think SBR's TheGreek and BetJam sheets transferred? They were both A+ rated and long time fixtures on SBR recommended list. Basically BetOnline (bigger push) and Heritage (new addition) replaced those two. SBR was was all over the forum selling how this news was fine and really working the transition. Heritage rating shortly later went B+ to A- and then A- to A when they started doing sign ups just through SBR.

Really old accounts are old accounts. There's players still playing at WSEX who are none the wiser. I'm not drawing that comparison to to say anything wrong at all playing with Heritage just using it as an example. The existing accounts of many years that are happy and even major PR hits don't matter too much. Most players don't read this stuff just deposit and bet. A thread today where what WSEX had for for odds was quoted.

Heritage is old players + TheGreek and BetJam which SBR likely had a massive sheet with + new sign ups mostly from SBR. Regardless Helena being on SBRs sheet is a near given, and Heritage getting a lot of business from SBR is near given too.

Last edited by PropPlayer; 11-16-2012 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:16 AM   #69
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good job prop, appreciate all the updates.

especially amused by the assumption that playing a non-sponsor (and thus lower rates) books might actually be better if you ever had a dispute.

sbr will eventually crash and burn, I cannot wait to watch it.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:01 PM   #70
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

Laverty, did you read the thread previously? Do you remember that their expert was going to need to ask questions/interview the player. Now today we see they purchased a statement from Nelson Rose and he reviews again only one side of the story, never talks to the player and issues an opinion. This opinion is that they didn't even need to return deposits and it was made with no discussion with the player at all. His statement is a one paragraph quote (it took several paragraphs to tell how great they are, and who he is). Who was the evidence handler? Also no mention yet of charity in their report. These guys are pretty sleezy imo (Heritage / SBR both) the fake expert I won't even get into, I've discussed him plenty in the past to no avail. The LOL of how great they are to start their report. All the critics are banned, cory is banned. So only a few left to even question it. Dishonest company that robbed a player imo.

Last edited by PropPlayer; 11-17-2012 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:10 PM   #71
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

PP, telling it like it is.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:53 AM   #72
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

A lot of interesting facts that I'm sure the vast majority of posters over at SBR are not privy too. A shame really being that I held them in high regard...
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:11 AM   #73
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

RIck_Da_Ruler,

I once loved a girl, I now don't. WE ALL AMKE MISTAKES

took me a while to properlyt spell your name you're ****ing welcome.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:30 PM   #74
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re: SBR Discussion Thread (SportsBookReview / SBRForum)

BetIslands shopping more bailouts? B rated at SBR.

My guess is it goes something like this.

1) They get bailed out, players get paid, and Shari is using this next time to troll threads, saying right it was only X weeks ago everyone though B.I. was...

2) They don't and SBR tells players to stick with A books, B books are risky.

Their forum was a BetIsland shill fest for a year.

Justin7 shilling for them too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin7
I know Jon, the owner of BetIslands... I've known him for several years. I assure you, Betislands (and Jon) have nothing to do with those other books.
Funny how to the story got twisted once the cover they were associated was blown. The new story was B.I. acquired 7RedSports. SBR also announced B.I. would be paying Cory1111 which likely never happened.

Anyway maybe seeing as Justin7 has known the owner for years he can fill us in what is happening now, as in soon before they figure out what is happening and get story straight? They in financial trouble or what?

J7 you might want to check with "chain of command" Bill Dozer before you respond.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:36 PM   #75
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the fact (well okay assumption) that sbr knew about this for a week and let that thread run up to 1200+ posts and never said a word is sickening.

I wish bad things on sbr.
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