Dan did a sportsbook screw you out of money somehow? Can you link to the thread where you were screwed or can you summarize the situation for us?

Definitely the GOAT.

unfortunate that peyton didn't think work out.

What has Peyton won exactly?

you said he would never play another 'significant (rignificant?) snap'.

i mean, i guess semantics is gonna be a big deal here, but i'm pretty sure any non-biased observer would say that he either did (they're the #1 seed in the afc, GOTTA be ONE 'significant snap' in there) or that as the #1 seed, he will.

U know what I'm talking about! Stop trying to be funny, I use secretaries not computers! Remember that guy, the one who types with his toes or like a 9 yr old Asian girl. Yeah they banned me today at sbr. That forum is a joke!

If u r looking for a real good summary of it, prop just posted a link on my 5dimes thread on this forum. Click his link and u will get a good understanding of what went down. Whoever sumerized it did their homework because it's exactly what happened. I was very impressed and satisfied with the article.

This week was when SBR was suppose to start shopping a BI bailout to the various books. Reports around the forums are coming in that several books are/were interested but all talks are being held up/failed because SBR is requesting a commision/percent of losses for any deal that happens.

that surprises you? you think the people that own/run sbr WOULDN'T try to profit from this?

Why would either party need SBR?

Because no straight bailout is going to happen with the books alone.

So visiting SBR now requires me to click 3 extra buttons. I have to click the VPN I want to use, click connect, and click reload.





Bill hasn't spoken on BI in a while, finally did today:

I do give them credit for spotting my IPs though. They've now blocked many of them. This cost me 40 minutes changing a couple dozen of them yesterday.

Source

^^That sums up what sort of scumbag pieces of **** Walker and Dozer are. I got a pm the other day alerting me that my pro membership is set to expire next month. Lol needless to say, I will not be renewing. I wonder if these crooks actually took any financial hit themselves over betislands or if they just have more traffic than ever. Unfortunately the latter seems most likely, and if not there's always the next batch of kiddies to sign up for the lure of the points and pizza

Notice Dates:



Jon's comment is the last in this image, and was made Feb 3, 2012.

July - key posts are post #12, #21, #34



side note: taxer, who has an interesting post history, is an alleged Jon ghost account.

Post #38 and #46 from July



Then post #56 November 11, 2012.

Notice name of the leaker in July that claimed to have worked for Jon at 7RedSports and then notice the email address from this message from Feb 1, 2012.



When I mentioned on Feb 1 that they had a stale database this was because I got this email to several family members accounts I use their names with sportsbooks and also got it forwarded from a partner who is clueless and just places bets as instructed. No idea why didn't put 2 and 2 together back then, but BetPhoenix and only a couple other books fit as the database source.

Not going to post it for a good reason but in late November Jon via email told a player he was unable to pay that he was backed by EZStreet and he has to talk to the owners before he can get something done.

They use some very cool techniques for tracking their visitors, well beyond IPs and cookies. If you are still having issues getting banned/blocked, send me a PM

this is infuriating

His part about shopping the gutter for bailouts and willing to give them exposure for help is at least truthful, I heard that days earlier - censored skype log (I'm Jim and the full black out is the bookie I was talking with).

I thought this was somewhat interesting
http://www.askthebookie.com/what-sbr...-fiasco-69870/

Also, would anybody recommend america's bookie or 1vice or their whole family of books? I somewhat know the whole apex/Robbie stiff story, but don't know how bad it really is due to sbr controlling opinions for so long with their horrible rating, and never ending quest to slam their name and make sure that nobody deposits there (all potentially in everybody's best interest fwiw)

First let me state I don't know Robbie at all. Have never met him, never chatted with him etc. I do know plenty of guys who know him though including marketers associated with him. From being around a while, this is probably closest to the historical account:

Robbie marketed or worked for some of the earliest betting sites before eventually becoming the manager of DSI around the time they were failing; this was one of the bigger shops at the time. Employees were not getting paid and most of the staff was really loyal to Robbie and blamed the owners.

Whatever happened here - DSI was bailed out by CRIS, and allegations were the employees were forced to sign away rights to their social security severance pay in order to collect their last check. On the forums CRIS was already a sponsor and DSI became a sponsor too. These forums became inundated with pro Robbie posts from staff, but he was given much of the blame as the forum line sell. More the issue was: Robbie had the marketing list. This was obviously a threat to DSI who was a large shop and this database had much of the offshore players at the time. The stay with us not Robbie (to players who had just been gross-slow-paid) needed a campaign.

Robbie out of a job started calling the list asking if they wanted to stay with DSI or with Robbie - basically just started taking bets direct as a bookie with no shop. He then worked mostly as an affiliate working his list for referrals to other books, and doing lots of typo domains to send players to the same sportsbook. For example, his affiliate site would be the plural or non plural version of a major book, he'd rank for their terms and get an affiliate commission from it.

Many years later using cash he earned legitimately and a partner/backer he got his own software. In time this became a network of books (APEX). The forums were a little anti-Robbie from the old campaigns against him (protecting list - and monkey repeat) but a lot of the complaints were his marketing tactics. The domains he was previously using to affiliate he began using to recruit players to his own books.

He also had self-ran review websites that appeared independent etc. This is however just part of marketing. Full Tilt Poker did a ton of this and owned typo domains of their competitors too, VIP Sports had all sorts of self-ran review portals etc. while scummy, was (and somewhat still is) a pretty common tactic in gambling where no one is filing lawsuits against each other.

Around May 2004 slow pays from Robbie's books were reported. This is a pretty common tactic. When a book doesn't have the money to pay they start becoming willing to take larger deposits and sharp action. This can be, but is often not, for the purpose of pump and dump - it is more to get the deposits pay withdrawals. Robbie had a relatively clean decade long track-record at this point. There were plenty of anti-Robbie campaigns, but there was no history of stiff jobbing. Not having the money to pay, getting deposits to do so was likely the initial intent.

The way this played out I tend to lean towards the idea APEX books failed - but don't discount the run up deposits to take more when closing possibility. However, the reason I say this is because SBR was involved. He owed just over $100,000 to players and didn't have the cash. He set up a payment plan and SBR was really involved with this. It took time for default on the payments and fail. The money he had left over SBR wanted him to pay players. Robbie who was in communication with SBR took the line - this ship is sunk, I'm broke and this little left is all I have to live with and this is done.

This wasn't a close and open next day scenario either. He went to work for another book that was doing a bonus offer APEX bailout - this was not a very good deal and SBR advised against taking it (similar to EZStreet offers now to BetIslands).

6-months after the APEX failure he changed his websites into affiliate portals, promoting PinnacleSports and other sites: SBR asked the affiliate programs to withhold his payments and pay them to APEX players -claiming they had a list of players owed. 15 months after the failure he was doing recruiting for BetOnline.com which isn't the same company we know now (this was EZStreet Sports, the now BetOnline was then known as BestLineSports and what's now known as EZStreet sold them the BetOnline.com domain in 2007. So it was actually today's EZStreet then using the domain betonline.com Robbie was marketing for).

18 months after APEX failed, Robbie got back into bookmaking launching Bet33 in October 2005. SBR stayed on him for years alerting at every opportunity this book was ran by a stiff, it was part of the APEX scam etc.

Now I would have done the exact same thing, SBR did their job keeping the finger on him forever. However, now Robbie is not hiding. The debt from APEX I believe was around $100,000, he spends a lot more than this on marketing now - and has decent income from PPH etc. In 2009 he began paying back APEX players. SBR even posted asking players to write in if they were owed by APEX to contact them. He's been willing now 4.5 years to clear any debts. He claims to have cleared any he is aware of.

Its worth noting other than APEX closing with around $100K in balances I don't know of any complaints with this group. Because Robbie 1) cooperated with SBR initially when APEX was in financial trouble, and 2) had 18-months of history not running his own book. 3) eventually paid back the players etc. makes me feel the statement: "Bet33 was built with stolen player funds" is probably exaggerated some. This is however someone who had a book fail in the past. There's no new complaints I know of since 2004. He has PPH software used by agents, several partnerships, and a database of clients that has been built since the mid-1990's he still services.

There are risks because these books are small, SBR bashes them a lot, the ratings are low and have always been low - so how much would stiffing a player hurt their reputation - not much. That said, again there are no complaints I know of worth mentioning since 2004.

They are purely a recreational sportsbook though taking small deposits. If wanting to use them for a bonus whoring etc, I'd probably say America's bookie before 1VICE because 1VICE is newer and has different partners (Ironic I guess, to say: I'd rather bet at a book Robbie was longer involved with - over track-record which is sort of lol, but is my honest gut feel). All are probably fine to use for in and outs though. However, these books could fail. This is not a recommendation - just for player who understand the risks and how to work these types of books, I don't see a problem doing so. For the casual gambler who just need a couple outs I'd for sure recommend sites like 5Dimes and Justbet well ahead of these guys - but do consider these guys an option for those who know what they are doing and understand the risks. They will cut you off fast if you win anything much.

WagerWeb complaint on SBR. The quick gist is they've added a term to their deposit page that those depositing with credit card must take a bonus. This means at minimum 30% free play with 7 times rollover.

Copy and pastes with duplicates remove (meaning read quotes + posts) here:



So this line shown:

"As of Thursday December 13 @ 5:00 pm EST All Credit Card Deposits are tied to a DEFAULT 30% bonus 7x or 50% 12x."

Is enough that no player is going to know they can't decline the bonus? The simple solution is to just change the words to explain better and for anyone who had the old wording and says I didn't understand before any bet is settled - just refund them.

This is far from a standard term. What other sportsbook do you have no option of declining the bonus and are forced to accept a 30% FP with 7x rollover? That rule is going to fool many if left. Obv. I disagree with the bulk of the comments in the SBR thread about no big deal here. They multiple times refused to refund a player who was depositing just to bet the Super Bowl and didn't understand this odd term that isn't really clearly explained.

Also Dozer invoking the Tremp rule - you were not nice after being wronged, so we are not helping you. Manners more important than fair gaming is so duh obv. OP should have known.

PER SAY

dozer is such a douchebag in that thread