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Old 04-11-2012, 01:03 PM   #1451
jizzear
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Re: MMA Thread

on the bisping line i think he should be a huge favourite in that match at least -350, pretty sure hel just pick him apart all day might even get the finish in the third.

Really just never see him losing here and @swiftx really dont think its fair that he has a suspect chin.....he got ktfo that one time by a punch thats putting literally anyone away but hes fought plenty of guys with good power
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:23 PM   #1452
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Re: MMA Thread

I feel Franklin Le should be around +100 not +240 Le is very dangerous and should have beaten Silva.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:58 PM   #1453
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Re: MMA Thread

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on the bisping line i think he should be a huge favourite in that match at least -350, pretty sure hel just pick him apart all day might even get the finish in the third.

Really just never see him losing here and @swiftx really dont think its fair that he has a suspect chin.....he got ktfo that one time by a punch thats putting literally anyone away but hes fought plenty of guys with good power
He got dropped in the 3rd round vs Silva and am pretty sure he would have been finished if it was a bit earlier and he did get a bit rocked vs Akiyama. I'm not saying he has a weak chin, maybe he has a okey chin, a little worse than Okami? Anyway, I just think there's a possability of him getting TKO/KO'd by Boetsch, like there is a decent chance, maybe 10-20%. To put it into perspective, if Shogun was facing Boetsch, the odds of shogun getting TKO'd/KO'd would be more like 1-5%.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:19 PM   #1454
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Re: MMA Thread

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I feel Franklin Le should be around +100 not +240 Le is very dangerous and should have beaten Silva.
I agree, this fight looks closer to even to me. If Le is +200 I'll be all over it.

I think Le matches up very well against Franklin. His cardio is the only issue imo. Le faded in the 2nd against Wandy and faded in a the 3rd against Smith. Franklin doesn't have the massive power those guys do, but he can still finish if Le is gassed.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:51 PM   #1455
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Re: MMA Thread

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I agree, this fight looks closer to even to me. If Le is +200 I'll be all over it.

I think Le matches up very well against Franklin. His cardio is the only issue imo. Le faded in the 2nd against Wandy and faded in a the 3rd against Smith. Franklin doesn't have the massive power those guys do, but he can still finish if Le is gassed.
Franklin has decent power and can def finish Lee but if Lee comes in w a good gastank his standup is going to be far superior. Still the fact is, Franklin has faced better competition than Lee so that has to be taken into account as well. I'll take Lee if he is enough of a underdog and frank if he isn't too big of a favorite.

Last edited by Swiiftx; 04-11-2012 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:22 PM   #1456
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Re: MMA Thread

http://www.ufc.com/media/ufc-145-ui-...timate-insider

Whoa, Jones comes across extremely arrogant, I sincerely hope he gets his ass kicked. Though he probably won't because he might be the most talented and athletic guy the UFC has ever had. But his way of talking just seems so, it's all about me, me and me, I'm the greatest etc. I know you have to have confidence and all that, but the way he says it and presents himself, it just so... Idk, it just feels like the wrong sort of confidence.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:27 PM   #1457
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Re: MMA Thread

Sounds like he's taking a page out of boxing.

Being boisterous worked for Brock
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:48 PM   #1458
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Re: MMA Thread

Brock had a different kind of confidence and talk, definitely more entertaining and seemed more down to earth, like he wasn't living in a bubble, which I get the impression Jones is in everytime he talks. "I'm am the leader of the children..." it just sounds made up, it sounds more like he's talking to himself, convincing himself that he is the best, than natural confidence and in the end, he ends up just annoying people and coming of as fake. I like confidence in a fighter, like Ali or Tyson had, they have genuine confidence and their emotional speeches are some of the best. I'm just not feeling it with Jones.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:08 PM   #1459
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Re: MMA Thread

Don't buy that Le "should have beaten Silva" lol where does that come from? That was a closely contested fight where both fighters had good moments of offense but Le is not good when heavily pressured. If Franklin comes forward I think there's a decent chance he finishes Le, he should be a lot bigger and stronger for one thing.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:20 PM   #1460
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Re: MMA Thread

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Brock had a different kind of confidence and talk, definitely more entertaining and seemed more down to earth, like he wasn't living in a bubble, which I get the impression Jones is in everytime he talks. "I'm am the leader of the children..." it just sounds made up, it sounds more like he's talking to himself, convincing himself that he is the best, than natural confidence and in the end, he ends up just annoying people and coming of as fake. I like confidence in a fighter, like Ali or Tyson had, they have genuine confidence and their emotional speeches are some of the best. I'm just not feeling it with Jones.
Well ya obv there's a difference. It's more on the boxing side where Brock's hype was WWE schtick. Plus ... Brock was white. No matter what anyone says there's an inherent bias against cocky African-Americans.

Either way it plays well. Some people will root for his excellence like a Tiger and others will want him to get knocked down a peg. Invoking emotion is good in prize fighting.

BTW the fact that's he's running through elite dudes prbly indicates his confidence isn't forced. If anything it's just starting to come out
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:54 PM   #1461
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Re: MMA Thread

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Well ya obv there's a difference. It's more on the boxing side where Brock's hype was WWE schtick. Plus ... Brock was white. No matter what anyone says there's an inherent bias against cocky African-Americans.

Either way it plays well. Some people will root for his excellence like a Tiger and others will want him to get knocked down a peg. Invoking emotion is good in prize fighting.

BTW the fact that's he's running through elite dudes prbly indicates his confidence isn't forced. If anything it's just starting to come out
What, I'm not biased against cocky African-Americans, if he was white, it'd be the same thing. Like I said, something about him just rubs me the wrong way, it's in no way affiliated with the color of his skin, but the way he caries himself and the wording he choses during interviews. I like loads of cocky African-American fighters, I'm a fan of Ali, Tyson, Rampage etc.

It's just the way he says things like, "These are the kids that love me, I am their team leader... That team, that is my team now". Lots of people are saying Jones is fake, and like they say, there's no smoke without fire.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:06 PM   #1462
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Re: MMA Thread

I wasn't talking about you specifically. I can look up sources and cite if you think I'm off base.

I'm talking about MMA and the fans/consumers as a whole. Nothing really to do with you except you brought up Jones and his ego driven self-promotion as a talking point.

I think Rashad would be doing the same thing if he hadn't been KTFO. Dude grabbed his nuts and slapped Forrest in a title fight and called Rampage an Uncle Tom
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:15 PM   #1463
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Re: MMA Thread

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Whoa, Jones comes across extremely arrogant, I sincerely hope he gets his ass kicked.

But his way of talking just seems so, it's all about me, me and me, I'm the greatest etc. I know you have to have confidence and all that, but the way he says it and presents himself, it just so... Idk, it just feels like the wrong sort of confidence.
I haven't watched the video. I'll watch it later. But reading what you wrote I didn't take that as saying he was fake.

Of course he's fake. What you wrote made it sound like he dropped that and was being a bad ass.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:47 PM   #1464
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Re: MMA Thread

Interesting take DI. I hadn't considered some of the Jones hate was race related but I think you have a point.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:55 PM   #1465
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Re: MMA Thread

No doubt it's race-related. People always want to see the cocky black "put in his place," I'll never forget how much support there was for a BRIT fighting Mayweather in the US. It's odd though how much the cocky personality of some black athletes gets pushed into the public consciousness but comparatively few know about the cocky douche personalities of many white athletes (Matt Hughes is a great example of this).

But Jones is a douche, plain and simple. He just comes off as so fake with the whole "I'm a humble man of god" turning into a dude with mad swagger now. As a person, at least the personality he projects in the media (obv we have no real idea what he's like as a person since we don't know him), I'm not a fan. But there's no denying he is a potentially transcendent talent who is a simply amazing fighter, and I love to watch him in the cage.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:57 PM   #1466
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Re: MMA Thread

O ya and it goes the other way too b/c he's perceived as trying to act white within the black community. The bubble comment Swift brought up is kind of the same thing, that he's 'fake' that he's trying to act white instead of being himself. He really is in a tough spot. He's the ARod of MMA - unlike baseball you don't fail 2 out of 3 times though.

But being the biggest BAMF on the planet cures some of those ills obv - it's good to be the King
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:04 AM   #1467
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Re: MMA Thread

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No doubt it's race-related. People always want to see the cocky black "put in his place," I'll never forget how much support there was for a BRIT fighting Mayweather in the US.
There's a reason for the term 'Great White Hope'.

What is everyone hoping for ... the black man to lose obv.

How was Anderson Silva perceived when he started dancing in the ring? Dana White talked about booting him out of the UFC - the GOAT lol.

Would he do that if Liddel felt like taunting in his heyday? How is Nick Diaz viewed?
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:23 AM   #1468
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Re: MMA Thread

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O ya and it goes the other way too b/c he's perceived as trying to act white within the black community.
Rampage touched on this IIRC in the hype before their fight. So you're right it's tough. Everything just seems so forced with him though that's it's tough to empathize with him when we have no idea who the real Jon Jones is.

If he really is this ultraconfident guy with swagger, then I think he should just embrace that and be who he is instead of trying to pretend like he's a humble prayergiver. I could be wrong, but I think a lot of fans would respect him more.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:26 AM   #1469
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Re: MMA Thread

I dunno man Ali was pretty hated in his day, whole lot of revisionist history on that one.

If he's looking for commercial endorsements he's taking the right tact.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:43 AM   #1470
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Re: MMA Thread

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I dunno man Ali was pretty hated in his day, whole lot of revisionist history on that one.

If he's looking for commercial endorsements he's taking the right tact.
And he's gettin the results.

But on Ali, I think it's hard to compare since that was a WAY different time. Right after/during the Civil Rights movement. Lot more reason for backlash against black athletes.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:44 AM   #1471
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Re: MMA Thread

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I wasn't talking about you specifically. I can look up sources and cite if you think I'm off base.

I'm talking about MMA and the fans/consumers as a whole. Nothing really to do with you except you brought up Jones and his ego driven self-promotion as a talking point.

I think Rashad would be doing the same thing if he hadn't been KTFO. Dude grabbed his nuts and slapped Forrest in a title fight and called Rampage an Uncle Tom
The thing is, those moments when Rashad grabbed his nuts and slapped forrest, those are emotional moments, perhaps moments of confidence in the ring, or the Tyson speech in the ring. And I have no problem with that kind of confidence because it's natural and looks sincere. I like good old trashtalk and I think the one he had with Rampage was pretty good, unfortunately the fight was lackluster which sometimes happen bc both fighters get more cautious not wanting to get embarrassed.

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There's a reason for the term 'Great White Hope'.

What is everyone hoping for ... the black man to lose obv.

How was Anderson Silva perceived when he started dancing in the ring? Dana White talked about booting him out of the UFC - the GOAT lol.

Would he do that if Liddel felt like taunting in his heyday? How is Nick Diaz viewed?
I actually didn't mind Silvas dancing, it takes a lot of confidence to do that because at any moment you can lose in the ring, I mean showing that he was bascially ridiculing Maia for not being able to strike any sort of offense and get silva in danger. As I said before, I don't mind these sort of "outburst" in the ring. Still, he should have fought more than he danced as he just wasted energy...

I think it's a bit different when Liddell fought bc UFC wasn't were it is today and was a lot more depedent on its stars than it is now and I don't know how he would have reacted then, but I'm pretty sure Dana isn't biased and if any other UFC fight would do the same, he'd treat them the same. Also add the fact that they were in a foreign country, Dubai, where you are in for the first time and this is the main event.

Point is, I don't mind taints in the ring, trash talk, but the thing Jones is doing out of the ring, like Mo said, "I am a humble man of god" and what not, just seems so fake and if it's not fake, then it's just as bad. There's a reason people have commented on how he acts in person and how he acts on television.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:15 AM   #1472
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Re: MMA Thread

Decent arb on Maguire/Johnson if anyone happens to have funds on both sites, Johnson is +140 on Bookmaker and Maguire is -115 on Sportsbook
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:21 AM   #1473
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Re: MMA Thread

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No doubt it's race-related. People always want to see the cocky black "put in his place," I'll never forget how much support there was for a BRIT fighting Mayweather in the US.
You sure it isn't because Mayweather is a total dick and woman beater? I'd cheer for ANYONE over Mayweather. Even when he went to the WWE and was pushed as the 'face' in his feud with the 'heel' big show he got booed.

If we're using boxing as an example, i'd cheer for almost any American fighter over Anthony Mundine (one of australia's 'best' boxers) because like Mayweather, the guy is just totally unlikable.

I like watching Jones fight, but he is definitely arrogant as hell, which is fine. So is Rashad. I actually like both of them, not sure who i'll be cheering for in the fight. Probably Rashad because I like an underdog but I cheered for Jones over Shogun.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:36 AM   #1474
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Re: MMA Thread

Funny you said that because Matt Hughes is by many accounts a total dick and was recently arrested for hitting a woman in a bar I believe? But fans love him.

The fact of the matter is black athletes face more fan backlash etc than white athletes.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:39 AM   #1475
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Re: MMA Thread

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Originally Posted by just_mo View Post
No doubt it's race-related. People always want to see the cocky black "put in his place," I'll never forget how much support there was for a BRIT fighting Mayweather in the US. It's odd though how much the cocky personality of some black athletes gets pushed into the public consciousness but comparatively few know about the cocky douche personalities of many white athletes (Matt Hughes is a great example of this).

But Jones is a douche, plain and simple. He just comes off as so fake with the whole "I'm a humble man of god" turning into a dude with mad swagger now. As a person, at least the personality he projects in the media (obv we have no real idea what he's like as a person since we don't know him), I'm not a fan. But there's no denying he is a potentially transcendent talent who is a simply amazing fighter, and I love to watch him in the cage.
dude is this serious?
No doubt it's race-related. People always want to see the cocky black "put in his place,"

So, who exactly are the people rooting for in this fight? Or do they not care cuz one of those ni**ers is having his dreams crushed?

People wanted and still want mayweather to get crushed cuz hes got a big mouth and wouldnt give the people the fight they wanted/still want.

Matt Hughes is a terrible example to use. Hes a real dude who sometimes has some douchey **** to say. Find any white athlete who speaks the way mayweather or jones do and see if people dont say the same **** about them.

You can find a ton of black, cocky athletes who are extremely successful in other sports that are adored. Jordan/Kobe/Usain Bolt/RJJ/Anderson Silva(I expect racists will classify him as black).. add in yours. Even better Jordan is loved even though by all accounts he is a bigger douche than Jones
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