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Old 03-13-2012, 07:40 PM   #1276
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Re: MMA Thread

No.
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:53 PM   #1277
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Re: MMA Thread

lay me evens and I will ship or escrow $300 right now.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:24 PM   #1278
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Re: MMA Thread

First of, I could get better odds from pin. 2nd of all, I don't wager that much money on sports betting in general, especially in a fight that has lots of variance in it. So you can take your dick measuring attitude somewhere else.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:03 PM   #1279
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Re: MMA Thread

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I said that anyone who fights often enough vs top competition is going to have losses on his record.
But where are the wins?

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It seems to me that you looked up Reem's record, went to see his losses to those guys and now thinks he's just going to lay down whenever he gets hit hard.
No, I've watched all of those fights, otherwise I wouldn't bring them up. Ever see him turn tail and run from Kharitonov before getting his clock cleaned? lol.

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Also, Werdum didn't win vs Reem and saying he arguably did, is just lol, couldn't be further from the truth.
http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/06/...-official.html

Sure about that champ? I remember scoring it a draw. I don't recall Werdum landing any especially hard strikes either, just some moderate ones.

Sure, he COULD beat JDS. I don't suppose I'd even be shocked if it happened since hey heavyweights hit hard. But given his CLEAR PAST WEAKNESSES when getting hit hard, I see massive value on the champ who hits extremely hard, has actually proven he can consistently beat top guys, and is less than a 2:1 favorite.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:39 PM   #1280
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Re: MMA Thread

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But where are the wins?



No, I've watched all of those fights, otherwise I wouldn't bring them up. Ever see him turn tail and run from Kharitonov before getting his clock cleaned? lol.



http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/06/...-official.html

Sure about that champ? I remember scoring it a draw. I don't recall Werdum landing any especially hard strikes either, just some moderate ones.

Sure, he COULD beat JDS. I don't suppose I'd even be shocked if it happened since hey heavyweights hit hard. But given his CLEAR PAST WEAKNESSES when getting hit hard, I see massive value on the champ who hits extremely hard, has actually proven he can consistently beat top guys, and is less than a 2:1 favorite.
There's more to it than just hitting more, I thought we covered this before. Everyone who saw that fight scored it for Reem. He controlled the octagon, had lots of groundtime where he was on top. Landed the more devasting shots. While I think he fought a bad fight, he still decisioned werdum, and I would have been surprised if he had lost it.

He's beat Vitor twice, Hunt, Lesnar, Werdum, sergei, and lots of top K1 fighters, but u pay no attention to those guys from what I've seen...

Who are these top ranked guys JDS has beaten, if I may ask? And please don't say Carwin, Struve, Nelson, Yvel, Gonzaga. Because as far as I know, Carwin hasn't beat anyone significant, Struve likewise, not Nelson either. Yvel, lol no.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:18 PM   #1281
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Re: MMA Thread

Overeem covers up and throws one strike at a time now. His size makes him powerful but slow and prone to gas. JDS will use superior footwork to hit angles and blast Overeem with his hands. Overeem was out boxed by Werdum before he decided to buttslide to certain defeat. JDS will move in and out punishing Reem and end the fight early.

Also, Overrem has always had issues with pressure. Would you expect lesnar or Werdum to put Overeem in danger standing? No, and they didn't. JDS will bring powerful fast shots in bunches. If you can't box with Chuck Liddell I don't see any amount of horsemeat making it possible for you to box with JDS. Fans have fallen in love with the new look of Overeem and refuse to remember his actual fights.
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Old 03-13-2012, 11:02 PM   #1282
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Re: MMA Thread

Hunt - bad. Werdum - 1-1 with a finish loss and a decision win where he did nothing. Kharitonov - bad. Lesnar - good. Vitor - good. K1 is irrelevant to MMA.

So he has 4 wins against good fighters vs how many losses? And they were all brutal beatings.

Nelson - above average. Carwin - good. Cain - among best in the world. Losses? One sub loss to a random early in his career. Never been beaten up on the feet. All wins in impressive fashion.

Ashecounty is bringing some real ITT.
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:43 AM   #1283
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Re: MMA Thread

Yeah, I don't think he's going to have picked up a thing or two since 2003 when he fought Liddell...

W/e, it's like you fight in your own backyard and rack up wins against nobodies, then enter a big competition and you're "good".

Another aspect is that this is primarily going to be a kickboxing vs boxer fight, and before you say, well JDS has faced muay thai fighters before and came out a winner, well not of Reems caliber. Yeah, he's slowstarter, he likes to feel out his opponents these days, throw less but throw with more power and it has worked so far. He knows JDS gameplan and what he's bringing to the table. Pro kickboxer/muay thai fighter > pro boxer.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:36 AM   #1284
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Re: MMA Thread

Yep, you've solved MMA. Kickboxing always beats boxing. Lemme go round up every dollar I have to bet it on Cerrone vs Nate Di...wait a second...
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:19 AM   #1285
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Re: MMA Thread

Just heard Cruz -215 vs Faber. LOAD EM UP GUYS.
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Old 03-14-2012, 02:26 PM   #1286
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Re: MMA Thread

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Yep, you've solved MMA. Kickboxing always beats boxing. Lemme go round up every dollar I have to bet it on Cerrone vs Nate Di...wait a second...
Do I need to spell out everything for you? It seems that way, so I'll do it this one time, then I'm done with this "debate" as it leads nowhere. Cerrone didn't fight a kickboxing match. He fought a boxing match with Diaz and lost miserably bc Diaz is the better boxer. On top of that, Diaz has a ridiculous reach which further helps his cause.
I never said kickboxing always beats boxing. a > b in this context means a over b most of the time, not a always over b as in 100%. That's just common sense.
I think it's fairly reasonable and logical to assume that a kickboxer > boxer in a fight where u can attack w all limbs. Now of course it depends on the skill level of the boxer, kickboxer, body types, overall skills, chin and all that.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Last edited by Swiiftx; 03-14-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:31 PM   #1287
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Re: MMA Thread

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Do I need to spell out everything for you? It seems that way, so I'll do it this one time, then I'm done with this "debate" as it leads nowhere. Cerrone didn't fight a kickboxing match. He fought a boxing match with Diaz and lost miserably bc Diaz is the better boxer. On top of that, Diaz has a ridiculous reach which further helps his cause.
I never said kickboxing always beats boxing. a > b in this context means a over b most of the time, not a always over b as in 100%. That's just common sense.
I think it's fairly reasonable and logical to assume that a kickboxer > boxer in a fight where u can attack w all limbs. Now of course it depends on the skill level of the boxer, kickboxer, body types, overall skills, chin and all that.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
Wait...so you're saying it comes down to the actual fighters involved instead of kickboxing beats boxing? Cuz that's not what you said before.

WRT to Cerrone not kickboxing against Diaz, I guess those hard leg kicks he was throwing were accidental body movements.

Cerrone tried kickboxing with a boxer. He got punched in the face a lot. Carlos Condit did it too. He kicked the boxer in the legs a lot.

So yeah...it's almost like there's no hard and fast rules here and it comes down to the individuals involved.
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:38 PM   #1288
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Re: MMA Thread

146 is going to be a very fun card, all main event is HW's. Mir vs Cain, Hunt vs Struve, Gonzaga vs Rosario, Nelson vs Bigfoot n and ofc JDS vs Reem.

Just on top of my head,
Cain over Mir, Reem over JDS, Hunt over Struve and Bigfoot over Nelson.
Though I see ways of victories for each fighter, should be a pretty high variance fest.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:09 PM   #1289
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Re: MMA Thread

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Just heard Cruz -215 vs Faber. LOAD EM UP GUYS.
I'm all in on Cruz here but waiting for the line to get better I think I can get Cruz at maybe -180 or so during TUF when the Faber fanboys line up after Faber talks his trashtalk during TUF

Also

UFC 146

MAIN CARD (pay-per-view)
Champ Junior Dos Santos vs. Alistair Overeem (for heavyweight title)
Frank Mir vs. Cain Velasquez
Roy Nelson vs. Antonio Silva
Shane Del Rosario vs. Gabriel Gonzaga
Mark Hunt vs. Stefan Struve*

PRELIMINARY CARD
Edson Barboza vs. Evan Dunham
Dan Hardy vs. Duane "Bang" Ludwig
Diego Brandao vs. Darren Elkins
C.B. Dollaway vs. Jason "Mayhem" Miller
Kyle Kingsbury vs. Glover Teixeira
Paul Sass vs. Jacob Volkmann

OMG THIS CARD IS AMAZING

Need to find an excuse to go to Vegas early for the WSOP.

Also, if Struve is -150 or better and he could even be a dog, huge bet coming he's gonna sub Hunt the way he subbed Barry. Hunt is very overrated with some fluke wins and Struve is criminally underrated right now. Sure, hunt *can* win but he has 3 minutes or so to get the killshot or Struve subs him

Hope there's value on Sass, Brandao, Bigfoot and Dunham (I expect Dunham to be a huge dog and feel he wins well over a third) we'll have to wait and see. Pretty excited to bet this card, much more so than 145, can't wait to see the odds.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:31 AM   #1290
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Re: MMA Thread

Ya I think Dunhams like +300. He could beat Barboza I think.

No way the Cruz line moves in our favor...right?
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:03 AM   #1291
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Re: MMA Thread

This is one of the best cards I've ever seen. Even the preliminary card has some interesting names, some up n comers.
I don't know if I would call his TKO over Kongo or Tuscherer flukey or decision over Rothwell Flukey. What I call flukey for instance is Mike Russow win over Duffee. But maybe we have different opinions on the word. Anyway I think I'm going to stay away from that fight unless the line moves crazy in either way. I def think struve can sub Hunt, no question, but the type of fighter to beat Struve is usually a forward coming aggressive fighter w good power.
Dunhams only shot is to take it to the ground and stay there a big part of the time, which I don't think he's going to be able to do bc he's just not that strong or good of a wrestler. I see value on Edson all over 1.5.
I also see some value on Ludwig depending how the line looks.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:57 AM   #1292
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Re: MMA Thread

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Who has said that?
Just_mo mainly
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:03 AM   #1293
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Re: MMA Thread

Question does jds know what to do if gets caught in a thai clinch?
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:09 AM   #1294
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Re: MMA Thread

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Who has said that? People say he sucks at getting punched in the face.

And why are people quoting K1 fighters he has fought when they wear 10oz gloves.

Anyone want to post a fight of his where he took some shots from a big hitter in 4oz gloves and shook it off?
No this is what I've said. And I've yet to see a person answer any of these questions or bring up a piece of evidence showing Overeem doesn't cower at the first sign of serious trouble.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:01 AM   #1295
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Re: MMA Thread

It's because you are a moron, no point in arguing with you.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:33 AM   #1296
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Re: MMA Thread

Just post a vid of reem being rocked by a big hitter in mma and coming through it and it'll shut him up then.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:30 PM   #1297
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Re: MMA Thread

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It's because you are a moron, no point in arguing with you.
lmfao! Brilliant points you're bringing ITT.

I've brought nothing but logic and solid reasoning to back up my viewpoints. You've brought "kickboxers beat boxers" and "variance explains his losses."
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:53 PM   #1298
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Re: MMA Thread

It's not that you don't bring valid and logical points. It's because you don't seem to be able to comprehend what people say and you draw the wrong conclusions. You are simply a tedious person to discuss with.

When I say kickboxer > boxer. I am simply stating that 2 person of equal skills in their each sport , the kickboxer is going to win in a match where it's allowed to kickbox. Now of course, if it's a mma match and the kickboxer is facing a wrestler/boxer, the kickboxer isn't able to kickbox because he can be taken down and thus has to have a different stance and a bunch of other things. But this isn't the case here because JDS always stands pretty much.
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Old 03-15-2012, 05:22 PM   #1299
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Re: MMA Thread

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It's not that you don't bring valid and logical points. It's because you don't seem to be able to comprehend what people say and you draw the wrong conclusions. You are simply a tedious person to discuss with.

When I say kickboxer > boxer. I am simply stating that 2 person of equal skills in their each sport , the kickboxer is going to win in a match where it's allowed to kickbox. Now of course, if it's a mma match and the kickboxer is facing a wrestler/boxer, the kickboxer isn't able to kickbox because he can be taken down and thus has to have a different stance and a bunch of other things. But this isn't the case here because JDS always stands pretty much.
That's just simply not true though. As you alluded to a bit in one of your other posts and I sarcastically said, it all comes down to the uncountable dynamics of the individual fighters. Saying a kickboxer has an advantage over a boxer in a pure standup fight is just way, way, way oversimplifying things.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:13 PM   #1300
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Re: MMA Thread

we still havent seen enough of the steriod + horsemeat Overeem version 2.0 to make a fair judgement in either direction. He has looked unstoppable since bulking up to over 250lbs. Maybe the 260lb reem can take a punch better than the 205lb reem, maybe he can't. We really havent seen his chin tested at his recent monstrous weight, so who knows really.

But as my bets state earlier, im taking overeem all the way
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