Machida is a tougher match for Jones stylistically than Evans.

The striking yes, but Rashad is a bit more versatile and has better wrestling than Machida + a better cardio. I mean, when jones fought machida and shogun, he could have a stance that didn't require him to be worried about takedowns, you can't say the same thing for Rashad.

Machida is always willing to take you down if he sees a good opportunity.

And how does Evans have better cardio lol? He has historically faded later in fights (dropped 3rd rounds to Jackson, Silva).

Still think Machida is the 2nd best 205er in the world, and he's plenty versatile. Evans has come a long way from his days of being embarrassed on the feet by Machida (watch how much his footwork has improved) and needing a flurry of ground strikes to beat Griffin after getting worked on the feet.

But I don't think it will be near enough to mount any kind of threat to Jones. Think this looks a bit like the Jackson fight.

Machida isn't looking for the takedowns or doing stuff to set them up, mostly. Yeah, we see the random trip or double underhook takedown. I don't think he attempted even one takedown in the Jones fight if I remember correctly. Point is, all Jones was worried about in the fight against Machida was his standup game. He didn't need to be worried about the fast double leg takedown etc, like he has to be worried against Rashad. Even when he fought Rampage he didn't need to worry about the takedowns.

Considering the conditioning, I don't remember him dropping the 3rd round to either Jackson or Silva, more like winning the fight until the last minute, then getting dropped and pounded on for a small amount of time, and also even against Rampage he reversed that takedown in the final seconds. I think it has to do a lot with what kind of kind of fight you're in and how many rounds. I mean basically everyone at lhw and up gets tired in the championship rounds.
I just compared their last performances, Machida looked a bit drain, more than usually in r2 and Rashad looked better in r2 vs Davis.

Also this is far from the same fight as Rampage. They have quite different styles of fighting and gameplans.

I like Thiago Silva at anything over +200. If I knew he was healthy and conditioned I would actually make him the favorite. His grappling is underrated. A healthy Silva wins much in the same fashion he beat Vera.

how do you guys like these bets i just made them. -

Thiago Silva to beat Gustaffason, $50 to win 105. (+210)

Lavar Johnson to beat Pat barry, $50 to win 85 (+170)

Alistair Overeem to beat Junior Dos Santos , $50 to win 72.50 (+145)

Josh Barnett to beat daniel cormier , $65 to win 50 (-130)

Parlay- Thiago Silva, Lavar Johnson, Overeem, Barnett, $50 to win $1,764

Overeem wins by 5rd decision , - $50 to win 650 ( +1300 )

Honest opinions?

Like the Overeem bet, but not sure about that fight going the distance really.

well the overeem 5 round bet is a crazy longshot bet. but i mean at 13 to 1, i could envision him dominating a few rounds and then cruising to a decision, crazier things have happened, and at 13 to 1 i figure i'll gamble

JDS > Reem. He will crumble the second he gets hit hard like always.

I meant it will look like the Jackson fight as in Jones will beat him around on the feet a bit then finish him some way or another.

Thanks mo and Swiift for your input. It was -172 like a week ago, then -180 a few days ago, now it's -210. I still really like it and Ima hit it up, but BLAHHH, I assumed props like that were much less susceptible to rapid line movement.

We'll see, considering his fighting resumé, he's faced the best of the best strikers and showed he can stand with them and win. Beside, he has more tools than JDS who is primarily a good boxer. Yes, JDS can catch him and finish him, JDS has great hands and this is after all the heavyweight division. But Overeem can do the same to JDS.

[QUOTE=just_mo;32019180]JDS > Reem. He will crumble the second he gets hit hard like always.

I see Overeem crushing JDS like some K-1 can , you have always seen the 205lb overeem who could barely stand from weight cutting crumble. You have not seen the 260lb roided horsemeated up overeem be in trouble ever

lol @ people not realizing Overeem has a well-documented history of crumbling when under pressure/getting hit hard. Go find his fight with Arona sometime. Pathetic.

Who are these "best of the best strikers" he's stood with and beaten? Everyone who has tagged him a hard punch in a 4 ounce glove has beaten him into a cowering mess. Liddell, Arona, Nogueira, Kharitonov, Rua.

Saki,Hari, Remy Bonjasky, Peter Aerts, Dzevad Poturak. These are/were all top K1 fighters who would smash pretty much everyone in UFC under K1 rules. He has 48 fights just under mma rules, JDS has 15. Ldo there is going to be more variance.
And him getting finished by those guys isn't that much of a beat considering they are all mid to high competitors. Beside, he's on a 12 fight winning streak, having faced some fighters who punch hard and he has yet to "crumble". Add also that he grown massively and is a completely different fighter anatomy wise than when he lost to arona, rua etc.

Note I said people who've hit him with 4 ounce gloves on. K1 =/= MMA.

Variance is gonna have more effect on a 15-fight record than a 48-fight record, LDO. So, repeatedly getting finished by hard hitters in a big fight record is more indicative of a trend of getting finished than anything in a 15-fight record.

He has not faced anyone in this "12-fight winning streak" (I say that in quotes because calling some of these fights is a stretch) who has hit him hard. Almost all of the "fights" were against complete cans. The only reasonably striker he faced was Hunt, and that fight lasted all of 60 seconds and went to the ground almost immediately.

"Growing massively and being a completely different fighter anatomy wise" has absolutely no effect on how you react to getting hit hard/pressured. That's all mental. Overeem simply doesn't have it, we have seen it TIME AND AGAIN.

Also, getting finished by Arona is a huge beat. That dude is known for no finishes.

Yeah, because the opponents JDS have faced are all top notch. Crop, past his time, long ago, getting KO'd right and left. Gilbert Yvel, next. Carwin, been facing cans and KO'ing them, big deal. Roy Nelson, durable but lets not kid ourselves, he ain't much more than that. Struve, next. Cain and Werdum are pretty much the only legit opponents.

What I ment with the variance part is that JDS hasn't fought top guys for as long as Reem has. When you're in the upper echelon(lol bader), there's more risk of losing, naturally. Losing to TKO/KO vs people like Shogun and Sergei in their prime doesn't put u in the weak chin category really/weak fighter mentally category. It's like saying Rampage has a bad chin/mentally weak bc he got TKO/KTFO by Shogun and Silva. So he has 1 fight where he crumbled due to strikes vs Arona, a guy who isn't well known for finishing fights. So what? Also, the first nog fight, the stop was premature, he was still on his feet covering up when the ref jumped in.

So you chalk up his losses due to variance? That is a complete joke. Where are his wins then? Belfort? Variance would imply there are ups and downs.

Carwin, Nelson, Struve, and Cain would embarrass everyone Overeem beat. So there's that.

Rampage ate 10x the amount of vicious strikes that Overeem ever ate before he went down. Comparing those two is a joke, once agan.

not sure nelson would embarass werdum after their last fight...

I'm not counting Werdum since JDS also beat him so that's a wash. Though comparing their wins is quite laughable since Werdum arguably beat Overeem, while JDS starched him.

I said that anyone who fights often enough vs top competition is going to have losses on his record. Anyway, there's no real point in arguing, you're continously saying he crumbles against heavy hitters and I say that's not always the case, he's been hit hard and continued to fight. Yes, he's no Dan Henderson when it comes to fighter mentality and chin, but then again, very few people are, and it's fairly early to tell of what caliber JDS is. It seems to me that you looked up Reem's record, went to see his losses to those guys and now thinks he's just going to lay down whenever he gets hit hard.

Also, I doubt Struve and Nelson would embarrass Lesnar. Carwin even lost to him. Also, Werdum didn't win vs Reem and saying he arguably did, is just lol, couldn't be further from the truth. Beside, Reem faced Werdum 4 years after JDS beat him and u could clearly see his improved standup in that time. He even got tagged, hit with some hard punches and didn't crumble.

Err you guys do realize Alister won the K1 Gp and only ever lost to remy and and Harri? harri is the best striker on the planet and the remy decision was frankly bull ****. People are also forgetting one other key point reach. Jds doesn't have nearly the wingspan of harri who pretty much just walked up to Alistar and just started punching him in the face. Sure the blueprint on beating uberheem is out there i just don't think jds as the tools to do it often enough for him to win this fight that often. Particularly when the he only has one path to victory and alistar knows what that path is. I see jds trying to get inside and either failing and getting picked apart or getting inside and being caught in the thai clinch

Oh the first comment in the above post was directed at a couple people in here who seem the insist that alistar sucks as a striker.

Who has said that? People say he sucks at getting punched in the face.

And why are people quoting K1 fighters he has fought when they wear 10oz gloves.

Anyone want to post a fight of his where he took some shots from a big hitter in 4oz gloves and shook it off?

He took some hard hits from Werdum, both punches and knee's. Inb4 Werdum doesn't hit hard...

jds is a bit to much for reem, -150, -175 is a *** lock and please dont be stupid talking any any sht.

Edit: Im even doing to edit this for you, JDS is ALIVE, Reem works against dead people, people that cant move, cant deal with his smoothing.

You guys know right that JDS is even better on the ground than he is on the feet with with distance...

...People betting overeem... in the mma.. like this is the thread for people to follow right and get advice..

what ever. Ill post after the fight.