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10-20-2019 , 01:52 PM
It's certainly more than possible that Weidman and most of his opponents were on steroids prior to July of 2015, but then Weidman got off the steroids while many of his opponents did not. Good point.
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10-20-2019 , 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
Inflated LW? Gastelum has middleweight victories over: Uriah Hall, Tim Kennedy, Vitor Belfort (overturned due to weed), Nate Marquardt, Michael Bisping, and Jacare. Plus he just put on a hell of a performance against the current champion Israel Adesanya. Pretty damn impressive MW run, especially considering he's only 27 years old.
Obviously I'm stretching it a bit and Kelvin is a good fighter but he should be at WW as he's only 5'9 and he has asked the UFC to allow him to try the weight cut but I don't think the brass trust him to show up on point on the scale.
But with his body type LW is more than doable but he would lose the speed edge which he relies on.
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10-20-2019 , 04:18 PM
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10-21-2019 , 12:03 AM
lol no way gastellum could ever make LW, i mean he almost died trying to make 170 enough times let alone 155 lol.
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10-21-2019 , 02:18 AM
Does anybody have a link to the Ben Askren / Jay Hieron fight? Or were there any other fights where Ben Askren was striking for an extended period of time? I haven't really been able to find anything.
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10-21-2019 , 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Balla Shusher
Interesting point about the change in performance being directly correlated to USADA changes, from betting perspective on reyes vs weidman, that was a major mitigating factor, extenuating circumstance.
I alluded to his performance being "prime" back 2015 etc, but didn't process that due to juice, i didnt consider that, only the outward performance difference not why / how.

Simple reality's = large amounts of money in your pocket.

If you put a juiced 2015 Weidman in a cage, and lined up 3 or 4 present day Weidmans outside and sent them in one by one, he would flatten each of them one after another.

Who are the next USADA burnt former's, facing legit up and comers is the question.
One of the things that makes the UFC so interesting is that it's the ultimate Darwinian experiment. The strong are constantly eating the weak.

I think a lot of the 'roiders have been weeded out by now (and I agree that Weidman was very likely a roider, I think I posted about that a long time ago but anytime you hear a professional athlete claim that he has low testosterone that's a dead giveaway that something is up and that he probably abused steroids in the past). If you watched his fights against Anderson Silva and Mark Munoz, yes, he was in his prime, but he was just operating on a different level then. That Weidman was clearly the best MW in the world at that particular point in time IMO.

Overeem was an obvious steroid abuser and is still in the UFC, but he's had to evolve and adapt and he's clearly not the same guy he was when he fought Brock Lesnar. I think RDA used steroids previously too although I'm a little bit less sure of this one, but if you look at him when he made that run to be the LHW champ, he was an incredibly physical specimen. Jon Jones also has clearly used steroids at some point in the past, but he's so good it seems to not matter all that much that he's off them. There are some other guys too.

I think the thing that a lot of UFC fighters were probably abusing as well is EPO, that seems like it could give you a MASSIVE advantage in a fight, probably more so than steroids even because EPO can give you super human endurance and having better cardio than your opponent is such a weapon. We know that Dillashaw was using EPO, I am sure that there were many others too.

One obvious EPO candidate (although I don't think he'd be smart enough to fool drug tests) would be Colby Covington, it could be genetic but that guy just seems like his gas tank is so much better than everyone else's, I'm skeptical that that is 100% natural.

Last edited by Malachii; 10-21-2019 at 02:38 AM.
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10-21-2019 , 10:49 AM
Think I'm going to pick Askren to win, I have been thinking this over and listened to a few other mma predictions from youtubers, and they all seem to agree that while Maja should have an edge in the boxing, it's not were the fight will be won. I doubt it will stay standing for too long, both are grapplers, both are ground specialists.

So now we have to think about who is going to be better in that area. While Maja is obv a bjj killer, and sub machine, is he really subbing a guy like Askren? Askren prob has all the tools and has seen all the subs before, I don't think he gets subbed a lot tbh.

Now lets think about who will control the fight on the mat? I think Askren will be the stronger guy in there, his wrestling will have him in more dominant positions and also most likely more top control. So while Maja is always dangerous, I think he will be on the bottom a lot, which makes me think that Askren will dominate this fight to a degree.

Maja getting older and it's 5 rounds, we seen Maja get tired as the fight goes on, this should favour Askren imo.

I think there are some other good spots as well, Loma comes to mind with over 300 Muay Thai fights, she has a wealth of experience and should easily win her fight vs a less experienced opponent.

I like Gane and MJ but they are short odds, but should be wins.

A fight I'm looking forward to is the Salikov vs Staropoli, Salikov is a kickboxing specialist and looked very good vs Nordin, but Staropoli is a madman in there, the guy throws a lot and loves to stand in the pocket, he eats shots too.

He is super hittable though, and the guy he fought was super hitabble, so not sure how he will fair vs a guy like Salikov, who is super slick, in and out, makes you miss a lot and counters the **** out of you. Will be interesting to watch. Getting decent odds on Staropoli but again, he will be in there vs a master, teacher and a guy that has a ton of kickboxing fights under his belt.

Another that's really hard to predict is the Camacho vs Dariush fight. Both are really good, Dariush perhaps a little under rated, can't say I think h'es that good tbh, but many analysts say h'es underrated, while I think Camacho is a fkn stud, comes to fight and loves to swing but these kind of fighters aren't necessarily winning the fight, especially against high level, thinking fighters.
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10-21-2019 , 10:55 AM
I hear good things about Evloev, going to try and find some tape on him, this might be a very good spot, as form what I can gather, he's simply better in every department. While Barzola is a decent fighter, he isn't exactly champ material but the Russian might be.

Evloev, has really good hands and wrestling, if Barzola can't win in the wrestling department, he will likely lose this fight.
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10-21-2019 , 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by White_Gatsby
I hear good things about Evloev, going to try and find some tape on him, this might be a very good spot, as form what I can gather, he's simply better in every department. While Barzola is a decent fighter, he isn't exactly champ material but the Russian might be.

Evloev, has really good hands and wrestling, if Barzola can't win in the wrestling department, he will likely lose this fight.
Not sold on Evloev tbh, he does look decent from the 2 fights I just watched but so does Barzola, think I might lean Barzola just bec of the odds!
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10-21-2019 , 05:53 PM
I like Camacho. In his last fight against Hein it looked like he was putting everything together.
Dariush is real solid but not really a stand out athlete which holds him back. I think this is a close fight so pretty happy to get Camacho at 2.4 or above.
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10-21-2019 , 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
On paper you would think Maia would be a bad matchup for Askren simply because Askren will probably try to fight Maia on the ground, where nobody wants to fight Maia. That's assuming Maia has better striking (I think that's a safe assumption without analyzing it).

It would seem the Covington, Woodley and Usman fights would be irrelevant to how Askren can beat Maia since there were no takedowns in those fights...unless Askren were to try grinding him against the fence.

Maia has not been taken down at all in his last 8 fights. He has not been taken down more than once in his last 17 fights. However, 7+ years ago Weidman took him down 4 times and Mark Munoz took him down 3 times, both for unanimous decision victories. Perhaps those fights hold the key to what Askren needs to do to win. Also, I'd be curious to look back at Shields vs Maia. Shields only had 1 takedown in that fight but he's not exactly known as a very good striker and was able to earn a split decision win over Maia.
Apparently Luke Thomas saw my post because shortly after he posted this video which I recommend to anyone thinking about betting the Maia/Askren match:



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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
Askren's takedown style is so sloppy. He'll do whatever it takes to get it to the ground. Against high caliber UFC guys that can mean night night (was nearly KO'ed in both of his UFC fights). He needs to tighten that up and be more conservative with his takedowns because Maia is way too dangerous to just leave himself exposed like that.
Initially I was leaning Maia but after giving it a bit more thought I do like Askren. I personally wouldn't bet it but if I had to I'd bet Askren. Would love to see him get subbed though.
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10-21-2019 , 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RB87
I like Camacho. In his last fight against Hein it looked like he was putting everything together.
Dariush is real solid but not really a stand out athlete which holds him back. I think this is a close fight so pretty happy to get Camacho at 2.4 or above.
Yeh, I was thinking 2.4 for Frank is pretty solid, can't argue with those odds at all. While I think the odds for Dariush are a bit meh imo.
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10-21-2019 , 10:44 PM
UFC 95, Demian Maja chokes out the American Gangster Chael Sonnen. Something to think about, he manages to take him down, via trip and subs him form the bottom.

Long time ago and Maja has slowed down quite a bit. Shields who isn't as good as Askren in the wrestling department managed to control Maja for several rounds on the mat!
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10-21-2019 , 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by White_Gatsby
UFC 95, Demian Maja chokes out the American Gangster Chael Sonnen. Something to think about, he manages to take him down, via trip and subs him form the bottom.

Long time ago and Maja has slowed down quite a bit. Shields who isn't as good as Askren in the wrestling department managed to control Maja for several rounds on the mat!
Good call on the Sonnen fight. I just watched it. Maia used a judo throw and then went right into full mount. He subbed Sonnen from the bottom but he had already set the triangle up when he was on top.

Shields isn't as good of a wrestler as Askren but his BJJ is high level which you can't say about Askren.
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10-22-2019 , 01:04 PM
Sonnen later said that Maia rocked him with a punch from the bottom a little bit before the final sequence. He said he was still dazed from it when he got thrown and subbed.

I know he lies a lot but that's what he said.

Maia also took down Jon Fitch pretty easily (February 2013).
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10-22-2019 , 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by anteatereater
Sonnen later said that Maia rocked him with a punch from the bottom a little bit before the final sequence. He said he was still dazed from it when he got thrown and subbed.

I know he lies a lot but that's what he said.

Maia also took down Jon Fitch pretty easily.
What a weird thing for him to say. There were no punches thrown on the ground. It is entirely possible that Sonnen got rocked from the judo throw. He appeared to land pretty hard on his head. Thing is by the time it went to the ground Maia had already positioned himself for the triangle.
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10-23-2019 , 12:29 AM
Volkan(-175) vs hardy (+150) thoughts?
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10-23-2019 , 03:16 AM
Hardy's only chance is to KO him early, Volkov has shown he can be knocked out though

I've always thought Volkov was overrated (dating back to getting wrestle****ed by Kongo) but I think I was wrong despite him being a ****** and getting KO'd by Lewis and he may have become underrated at this point, he should murder Hardy pretty easily here if he doesn't get knocked out in the opening exchanges Hardy will be a punching bag by late r2

Seems like backing Volkov straight maybe with a small Hardy by r1 KO hedge if the price is right is reasonable especially in Russia

Will be interesting to see where the market settles when it matures
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10-23-2019 , 04:30 AM
Well if anyone can be KO'ed with 11 seconds left in regulation it is Volkov. Really though this looks like a really bad matchup for Hardy, who is still learning how to strike. Apparently before his last fight he learned how to throw a jab. In doing so he seemed to forget all his other punches because a left jab is pretty much all he was throwing in that fight.

I'm pulling for Greg Hardy to win but this is an obvious bet on Volkov. The fact that Volkov was able to stand with Derrick Lewis for the better part of 3 rounds before he was knocked out is bad sign for Hardy's chances here.

Also, 2 key points that heavily favor Volkov:

1) This fight is in Russia
2) This is a main event. In other words, it is a 5 round fight. We already knew Hardy struggles with cardio due to being such an explosive athlete. Now we all know he has asthma, which can only be a negative for his cardio.

Considering this is practically a last minute addition to the card, I'm sure Hardy is being paid very well for this fight and the UFC will look very favorably on him taking this fight regardless of whether he wins or loses.
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10-23-2019 , 09:04 AM
Volkov available at 1.5 seems like such a ridiculous steal that I'm wondering what I'm missing here? It doesn't seem remotely possible that hardy wins this 1/3 of the tine?.
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10-23-2019 , 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dream Crusher
2) This is a main event. In other words, it is a 5 round fight. We already knew Hardy struggles with cardio due to being such an explosive athlete. Now we all know he has asthma, which can only be a negative for his cardio.
Scratch that. This fight has been moved to the co-main. Just 3 rounds.
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10-23-2019 , 06:47 PM
Volkov now 1.36, looks like he got smashed hard! Can't bet him at that price, though 1.5 seemed decent.

Lewis is a pretty average striker, I'd have to rewatch the fight but did Volkov out-point him easily or was it somewhat competitive on the feet?

Hardy at 3.25, has to be some value.
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10-23-2019 , 07:13 PM
Just rewatched the Lewis v Volkov fight, there's no way I'm betting Volkov at 1.36.

While he was winning every round vs Lewis, he is so hittable and is output is pretty low as well. He outworked Lewis but Lewis didn't throw anything and Volkov only threw a minimal, he also looked fatigued after round 1.

Think Hardy has a half decent chance tbh, for sure it's closer than those odds, prob a lot closer to a pick em imo.
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10-23-2019 , 07:41 PM
i can't see hardy ever winning this fight. volkov has a hell of a chin. two ko's in a heavyweight career isn't bad at all. skillwise hardy has shown nothing.

Last edited by Joe Pulaski; 10-23-2019 at 07:46 PM.
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10-24-2019 , 06:13 AM
Not a huge amount I like for this card.
Already on Camacho, heard the Thai chick that is fighting is really good on her feet but if Albu is smart she could use her size and stick her against the cage.

Betting low level womens MMA always seems like a bad idea unless the perceived edge is really big.

Will be on Maia by submission once I can find the best line. Already seeing 4.0 which seems decent.

I think either Maia catches Askren in something early or Askren can control Maia tire him over 5 rounds and take a decision. Maia could also probably stun Ben on his feet and then sub also.

Bellator card looks good not really researched it from a betting stand point.
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