I agree Woodley won both WB fights as a whole but he didn't under the 10 point system

He obviously beat Maia as well, but he made no effort whatsoever to land any significant offense in the championship rounds and I do think Maia won at least one of the championship rounds if not both via aggression and Woodley landing no significant shots

Also, the fence grab in r1 to stop Maia's one takedown attempt that looked likely to be successful DID likely change the course of the fight. There's a good chance Woodley would have got back up but there's also the possibility that Maia would have secured control of him on the ground and choked him out, we'll never know because the ref didn't penalise Woodley and didn't restart the fight on the ground (which should be standard if a fighter grabs the cage during a takedown attempt)

You're right I don't like Woodley period though, personality or fight style. I also still think he's overrated and still think that all of Wonderboy, Masvidal and GSP are likely to beat him in future encounters. I hope Lawler does too but i'm less sold on that. GSP especially I think would embarrass Woodley the way Rory Mac did, Woodley's live to one-shot KO him but he gets 50-45'd all day otherwise by GSP.

I think Woodley has been the luckiest champion in UFC history, he's clearly a good fighter but i'm not even sold that he is top 3 in his weight class

Herb is such a bad referee he should have deducted a point for Woodley and also he failed to ask his corner to dry him w a towel. He was always soaking wet fighting against a grappler.

Herb Dean consistently is bad at his job. He looks stoned all the time.

I think they need to standardise rules for point deductions. Outstretched finger leading to an eye poke, one point. Clear groin strike, one point. Cage grab, one point and the fight resumes with the cage grabber in his opponent's full guard. Knee to the head of a downed opponent, one point.

Also use replays during the timeout in the case of fouls and if a fighter is found to be faking a foul for the point deduction then the fight is over and the opponent gets the TKO/DQ win.

They also should get rid of the 12-6 elbows rule because it's stupid and the same with upkicks but if they don't then same one point rule applies.

Giving a warning first in every case basically gives every fighter one free groin strike, one free eye poke and one free cage grab.

You have guys like Ponzinibbio, Jones (granted not in his most recent fight), Faber and plenty more winning fights directly off the back of eye pokes that are careless at best and deliberate at worst. Browne eye gouged Mitrione multiples times and didn't even lose a single point, you could make a case for a DQ there for multiple fouls of the same nature and not even one point deduction. Groin strikes and cage grabs potentially changing the course of fights including two title fights that I can think of (Aldo/Mendes, Woodley/Maia off the top of my head) and nothing is being done about it with any consistency... why should Alex Caceres be docked TWO points by Herb dean for a groin strike when he regularly lets fighters off with a warning and there are plenty of fighters where a fighter has been on the receiving end of two groin strikes with no penalty, or Mitrione/Browne etc.

They really need to standardise the rules for fouls the current system is absurd and while the Maia/Woodley cage grab is far from the worst foul committed recently, it was so clearly deliberate why would future fighters not just grab the cage to stop a takedown if they haven't been warned yet in the fight.

Here's a granted very old link of point deductions all of which have led to warnings in various other fights, it makes no sense (hell, in the case of Belfort vs Akiyama he finished him with punches to the back of the head, and in Erick Silva's case he got DQ'd against Prater, yet in the listed fight it was a point deduction - no consistency at all)

http://mmadecisions.com/blog.jsp?id=65

The Figueroa/Caceres point deduction being 2 points makes it even weirder. Sure if that's the standard penalty, but it's not like that fight stands alone for 'most egregious low blows in UFC history' or anything (disclaimer the fight was like 5 years ago so I may not have the clearest memory of it but I did see the fight and I remember thinking a point deduction was fine but two points was weird)

Granted the Browne/Mitrione fight might have had other factors in play

http://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/matt-...-browne-bout2/

But a standardised point deduction system for stuff like this would prevent shady discretionary refereeing (which in this case may have been corruption or incompetence it doesn't really matter if the refs have a clear guideline to follow they have to do that, but they currently don't)

It's not that you aren't allowed, I was just pointing out the finer nuances that perhaps you might of missed but later might appreciate more. Look at Mayweather everybody hates on him too, I dislike him as an individual, I can't stand him to be honest but his boxing is next level. But people will be biased, call him RunWeather and claim he lost to Pac or other fighters, truth be told if you look at his fights unbiased you will see just how good a boxer he actually is. That's all I meant.

The first fight with Wonderboy wasn't boring imo, he almost murdered him in the fourth round, granted it wasn't a 5 round war like Conor v Nate but it was still a good fight. Woodley also has a ton of 1st round finishes, I mean how is that not spectacular?

Also Swoop ie Woodley having only a punchers chance, you basically said that before he faced Wonderboy too, it's simply not true mate.

Would you bet Maja again after what you witnessed?

Another easy winner for George Mahaven.

What are people thoughts on Pettis vs Moreno?

Feel like Moreno is more dangerous but Pettis is the better technical striker.
Given Moreno reach advantage and Pettis suspect chin the odds seem about right to me.

Can still get 1.73 on a few slow bookies which is tempting as 1.61 on Pinnacle.

The stakes were too high for Woodley (since he was already the champion) to do anything that would reduce his probability of winning, especially after Dana said the winner gets GSP.

Anyway, Maia is very difficult to finish. It has now only happened once in 26 UFC fights.

Maia is too dangerous on the ground and too weak standing to screw around with anything other than game theory.

Why turn 80% into 65% (or whatever) in a UFC title fight just to avoid ridicule?

I'd fire moreno 1.73 for sure

Marquez +150 5u

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk

DWTNCS 4 Risk $935.00

Phil Hawes/Julian Marquez Under 1½ (+105) $100.00 for $105.00
Kyler Phillips (-145) vs James Gray $145.00 for $100.00
Kyler Phillips/James Gray Under 1½ (-145) $145.00 for $100.00
Ronaldo Candido (-160) vs Carlos Candelario $120.00 for $75.00
Ronaldo Candido wins inside distance (+110) $40.00 for $44.00
Brandon Davis (+170) vs Austin Arnett $100.00 for $170.00
John Castaneda (-135) vs Cheyden Leialoha $135.00 for $100.00

Kyler Phillips/James Gray Under 1½ (-145) + Phil Hawes/Julian Marquez Under 1½ (+105) $15.00 for $36.96
Ronaldo Candido/Carlos Candelario Under 1½ (+110) + Phil Hawes/Julian Marquez Under 1½ (+105) $15.00 for $49.58
Brandon Davis/Austin Arnett Under 1½ (+125) + Phil Hawes/Julian Marquez Under 1½ (+105) $15.00 for $54.19
John Castaneda/Cheyden Leialoha Under 1½ (+125) + Phil Hawes/Julian Marquez Under 1½ (+105) $15.00 for $54.19
Ronaldo Candido/Carlos Candelario Under 1½ (+110) + Kyler Phillips/James Gray Under 1½ (-145) $15.00 for $38.22
Kyler Phillips/James Gray Under 1½ (-145) + Brandon Davis/Austin Arnett Under 1½ (+125) $15.00 for $42.03
John Castaneda/Cheyden Leialoha Under 1½ (+125) + Kyler Phillips/James Gray Under 1½ (-145) $15.00 for $42.03
Ronaldo Candido/Carlos Candelario Under 1½ (+110) + Brandon Davis/Austin Arnett Under 1½ (+125) $15.00 for $55.88
John Castaneda/Cheyden Leialoha Under 1½ (+125) + Ronaldo Candido/Carlos Candelario Under 1½ (+110) $15.00 for $55.88
John Castaneda/Cheyden Leialoha Under 1½ (+125) + Brandon Davis/Austin Arnett Under 1½ (+125) $15.00 for $60.94

I don't ever want to have to witness another Woodley fight, but he would just do the exact same thing next time, since Maia will never have the stand up to make him change his game plan.

Nice pick

I haven't seen dwtncs yet had a busy month but Def going to start watching soon

Backed Moreno at 1.73 for 2 units with Betfair sportsbook.
Getting backed in pretty heavily on 5dimes and Pinnacle.
Do think this will reverse a bit though.

I can't bet at either Pinnacle or 5dimes what are the bet limits this early on?
Then what are they on the day of the fight?

5d tends to be 500 early up to a few k game day penny's usually 250 openers then 50p then 1k and by game day it's 10k for main events or 3 to 5 for smaller events and 1 to 5 range for preliminary fights

Pettis morenos 2k atm pinny other fights 500 to 1500

I agree with this to an extent, but I think you have to factor in what an incredible physical specimen he is when you are debating whether or not he's top 3 in his weight class.

His pure technical skills are clearly not on par with some of the other elites in the weight class. But I don't know how you separate that from his athleticism and power when making arguments about whether he's better or not.

Clearly, Jorge Masvidal is a more technically skilled fighter than Tyron Woodley. Does that make him a better fighter? Masvidal lost to Maia, and Tyron was never even remotely in trouble.

Tyron fights conservatively, he lacks killer instinct, and he has problems pulling the trigger, but I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing if I'm betting on the guy. Personally, I would rather have money on a guy who grinds out a boring decision with a 5% chance of suffering an unlucky KO then a guy who goes for the kill Chuck Liddell style and has a 20% chance of suffering an unlucky KO.

Obviously, as a fan, it's different, and I totally understand where you, Dana White, and everybody else is coming from, but strictly from a betting perspective I see Tyron's cautiousness as a feature, not a bug.

I think the problem is that style only helps him "grind out a boring decision" against fighters who throw out even less volume than he does, either by design (Maia) or because they're scared of the takedown (Wonderboy).

When he fights someone who pressures more effectively and throws a higher volume he runs the risk of losing those rounds, or he has to be more active in which case he risks his precious gas tank.

As for Swoop's point about whether he's top three in the division... if you put any stock in the UFC's rankings he's beat the top three guys (Wonderboy, Lawler and Maia) and I'd pick him to beat all of them again in a rematch. He was crushing Condit before the knee injury, and who even knows if Condit fights again. Masvidal, Cerrone, RDA, even Magny would all give him interesting fights but I wouldn't say any were clearly better than him.

I think 170 is just weird at the moment, it's got a lot of talented guys but they all have flaws or limitations too.

Does anyone think Woodley has a chance against GSP at ALL beyond a puncher's chance if GSP is the same fighter he was pre-layoff?

Woodley is an incredibly physical specimen

Also i'd argue if Rory returned to the UFC a second fight would go exactly the way the first fight did and i'm still quite confident that Wonderboy would be a favourite in a third fight (i'd argue Woodley drew at best in both fights and that Wonderboy performed below his average in both)

I want to see Masvidal get the shot, styles make fights and Masvidal has excellent defensive BJJ and will engage standing with Woodley, he'll wreck Woodley volume wise and can only lose via either being knocked out or taken down regularly. Woodley's best bet would probably be an offensive wrestling oriented gameplan.

Curious to see what the Lawler rematch lines open.

I'll give Woodley credit he's good

...but remember being a boring fighter doesn't sell PPVs and make you money with your PPV points, Conor lost a fight in the UFC to Diaz and he's a bigger draw than ever. Woodley will never be a draw because his fights are consistently terrible when he doesn't knock his opponent out early and he has the personality of a dude with a victim and entitlement complex simultaneously, but isn't a natural heel the way that say Floyd is where people will tune in hoping to watch him get beat up. He's in danger of getting X-Pac heat where people just don't care about him (or I suppose the MMA equivalent would be Mighty Mouse heat where he's amazing, but just can't sell PPVs because very few people care to see him fight). As a champion that directly affects your financial compensation if you have PPV points. Woodley's been on heaps of big cards but i'd venture that if Woodley vs Lawler headlined by itself it would sell under 250k buys which is probably the worst of any of the next title fights in any mens weight class other than MM/Borg and Lawler is a relatively popular fighter, imagine how bad his buy rate would be headlining as the main draw on the card against any non-GSP or Diaz top contender and in both of those cases the buys would be coming in because of his opponent.

So while it'as fair to say don't take risks as champ, thats fine if you want to make 500k with no bonus for every card as long as you're champ then fade to obscurity when you lose the belt but if you ever want to be a superstar you have to either be marketable or have exciting fights or ideally both and Woodley has neither. The day he loses his belt he's back to making 100k headlining the prelims or fighting as the opening fight on minor PPV cards or headlining random fight nights against fringe top 15 guys in Oklahoma/Kansas unless he actually builds a fan base. He's been given every opportunity to become a draw co-headlining some of the biggest cards of the past few years and he's put on a boring fight each time due to lack of activity and a conservative gameplan

Gsp looked bad vs Hendricks most recently. Ring rust seems to be beatable by the elites such as Jones and Dominic, but it has been an awful long time. I don't like Woodley but he is sure able to stick to a game plan. I would have a hard time picking GSP if it was his first fight back.

ETA: personally I would pay to see either gsp or the Lawler rematch vs woodley, or if somehow Conor got the shot, but otherwise can't see buying it.

Can't really blame Woodley, he's not built to throw volume, he's perfectly built for 1 punch KO when his opponent over-extends and for taking people down who he feels he can controll on the ground. He's playing to his advantage.

It's all just styles make matchups, Rory demolished Woodley, Woodley demolished Lawler, Lawler had two close fights with Rory.

I completely agree with Swoop, and he desperately needs to do something to win over fans. Seems like he'll be out for 180 days, shoulder injury from last fight, that would explain why he didn't go for the kill, he mentioned it happened during the fight, that's why he didn't throw the overhand right anymore.

What's strange though is that he loses to Rory, Rory loses to Wonderboy who is an even better striker but yet Woodley then goes on and beats Wonderboy. I think Rory obviously has better ground game and TTD and perhaps just didn't care if he got taken down. But I do think Woodley has matured and gotten better as well, I think anybody will have a tough time facing him, but somebody like Masvidal should beat him for the reasons swoop already pointed out. Though if Woodley takes him down and starts that Gnp, who knows how much strength that takes away from Masvidal, we all saw what happened to Wonderboy, he just stopped engaging to a degree.

If GSP comes back same as he does pre-layoff then yeah, I think he cruises to an easy decision over Woodley - he'll just be pressing forward throwing out that jab all night long and he'll win on volume alone. I think even if he's dropped off some from his heyday he probably still wins that fight.

But that's a moot point because 1: I'll believe GSP is actually coming back when I see him inside the cage and 2: Dana doesn't seem willing to let Woodley fight GSP anyway.

I agree a second fight with Rory would probably go the same way as the first one but again, moot point since Rory isn't in the UFC.

Maybe Wonderboy could beat him in a third fight, but I'd probably still have Woodley as the favourite and again, the chances that fight gets made are pretty slim given how bad the last one was. I don't think it's a fight anyone is asking for.

Tyrone Woodley would beat GSP. GSP is past his prime hasn't fought in about 4 years, even in his prime I don't think he would win.

They are very similar, they can use their wrestling to win on the scorecards but GSP wont be effective with his wrestling against Tyrone. GSP also wouldn't have the athletic edge hes had in the past.

I'll be on gsp if it's a pickem. The four guys I'd take at evens to beat woodley are gsp Rory wb and masvidal who I'm most iffy on of the four

Dana says GSP will be fighting Bisping again now. I'm not betting this early but these are my thoughts:

GSP hasn't fought in years, he's going up in weight against a good fighter who is the current legit middleweight champion who used to fight at light heavyweight who has good takedown defense. And GSP's tactics are going to be what, take Bisping down and grind him out? GSP has a decent jab, but Bisping is a better striker and I need to check this, but he must have a longer reach. I'll be on Bisping pretty big as an underdog.