Provide lengthy history of scamming links please if there's anything other than the slowpay thread already linked.

He angle shot TomG on the start date of their prop bet a few months ago, ffs. Grats on finally writing a post that a sane person could get through tho.

I'm legitimately curious about the so called lengthy history and i'm sure others are too. I followed that thread at the time and don't remember TomG having a problem with it but i'll go reread it and check when I get a chance.

This is what I can see in the other thread

TomG posts he didn't realise it had started

Poogs offers to reschedule start to later date

Poogs posts link to conversation from other thread where prop bet was agreed to and terms, starting date, etc

TomG says he's happy to get started. Poogs offers to give TomG a free day or extend terms from 2 weeks to 3 weeks

TomG says it's fine and he should have remembered the starting date and the prop bet continues from there.

I don't see any angle shooting, yes a courtesy PM that the challenge was about to start would be nice but hardly necessary, the date and terms had been agreed to and then Poogs offered to start at a later date or give TomG an extra day to make up for it (why would he do this if he was deliberately angle shooting to gain an advantage), and TomG said not to worry and it was fine to continue and then they continued and as far as I know that's all there was to it.

I'm failing to see the giant scandal here. Am I missing something important or did you completely mischaracterise this exchange if it's what you're referring to?

He comes off better there than I was recalling. I guess once I know someone is capable of deplorable behavior I have a hard time giving them the benefit of the doubt, but maybe Poogsy has turned a corner. I just don't get why anyone would roll the dice with him when there are plenty of superior bettors with squeaky clean reps to choose from.

Can you make a list?

Would always like to invest a shekel or two in a winner.

Off the top of my head posters who I think would be better to give accounts to than Poogs:

Mihkel05, n00b590, Sabaneta, RSigley, Johnny_B, Donkson, Fubster, HolidayInTheSun, DefNotRsigley, B00T, TomG, GreenSmoke85, DodgerIrish, PropPlayer, somigosaden, popbottle, LedOut, lolitsbo, gmcarroll33, Peeig, MyTurn2Raise, Your Mom, calm, kaboshedx, trixtrix, Thremp, Poofler, shipitkthx, Performify, umaga, pourchampagne, TomCowley, hedgie43, thebayareabeast, riccja

again, another false claim, proven false in like 2 seconds. The start date of our bet was mutually agreed upon. You can apologize anytime bud.

So, just so we're perfectly clear here, you two autistic anthonys claim I have a "lengthy" (LOL) record of "scamming and shady behavior". When asked for examples you provide one instance where I slow paid a guy. Meaning I paid what I owed but a lot later than I should have. Ive been posting and doing business here since 2009. We have one slow pay in almost a decade and probably 7 figures total transferred. So youre wrong about me, pretty plain and simple.

Still waiting though, unless theres anything else. Take my 10k bet or apologize for your lying and shady behavior towards me.

BTW that was a great presentation. Loved the questions at the end. You seem to have a hard time making and maintaining eye contact. Wonder what thats about.

Thumbs up!

Account sellers, please keep me in mind as well.

Ok yeah that's really bad. I laughed at this:

"I'm going to be in vegas for the next couple months and won't be able to get on the forums."

ROFL what is this 1930's LV with no internet?

Anyways, check-mate on old Poogs lolol

I don't think either of you are really scammers or thieves, just complete ****ing morons that are horrible at sports betting.

I think poogs had zero intentions of ever paying unless it was outed here because he had future business aspirations here. However he did pay and can't really be classified as a scammer, just an attempted one who thought about it and chose to do the right thing. Doesn't really excuse it and anybody pointing it out is doing the right thing too. However he did pay.

That said I like reading poogs and iowa!/B00T/Sabaneta/Noob590 bickering back and forth among each other and never missing a chance to take a job at morons. Thremp being Thremp is great too. That's the way it's always been since I've been here and it's always worked and educated those with thick enough skin to stick around and make money. After all Poogs is now the king of Boston prob betting as a result. The last thing this place needs is to be where everybody likes each other and just congrats everybody on writeups and winners. I wouldn't have this forum operate any other way.

"300 or nothing my friend, your call."

A classic misunderstanding.

So much free mobnies in this forum and all some whiners do is bitch bitch bitch.

that list will do you no good with that... be like going to Hiroshima on August 7th

More or less any objections to someone's personal information being posted in this sub will result in it being deleted or edited without much question - unless it is a clear scammer we're on a which hunt for. Doesn't matter if the person is a dickhead or whatever, as long as they're not a scammer we're searching for I will comply every time on that.

We're not in the cleanest industry here, and there are many other reasons a person wouldn't want their real name connected to their forum handle for all eyes to see. Of course many people might already know their real name but that's who trust with that or who happens to just know of it for other reasons. But opening it up for anyone else to just easily find researching it (like doxxing) will always be deleted/edited on request. This is the same policy at many other sports betting forums too.

Why so bitter Ben?

That's fine but can you reinstate poogs' post with the names redacted? It's that time of year I think we all need a little release.

What names were in the post?
My name is not Travis.

Mihkel, noob, Iowa, Nick Diaz, and yours (possibly boot as well). If referring to Poogs post

If anyone in here has had a lot of success with NHL props this year and in past (with proof), please direct message me... Have a few accounts open for these type of plays.

Also, I am open to account sharing as well for my own personal prop plays. Will start out with one account to start to prove myself. My Total 2+2 Prop Record is 49-22 (69%) +28.90 Units. All can be verified/found in my past posts on here. This is a very small fraction of my actual prop record for the year as I only post about 5% of what I actually play. Currently, hitting about 65% in NBA on the year. I also do NFL and MLB.

daaaaaaaamn

Appears I was mistaken about Swoop's poker issue. Apparently he submitted a fake name and got his paypal locked resulting in a slight delay to payments. I would assume this is just garden variety stupidity and actually strengthens his claims of extreme incompetence with regards to his inflated record.

Well, that's almost an apology. I don't believe it was an honest mistake given your history of making false and defamatory statements about me (this is the second time the mods have forced you to retract a false and defamatory statement about me), but I can't prove otherwise, so I will accept that you just made a mistake.

I appreciate that you admit that you were mistaken.

I take issue with yet another LIE of yours that I gave Paypal a fake name as I will explain later in the post.

I take issue with your misleading statement that there was any delay in payments as I immediately provided multiple alternative options for immediate payment to any affected investors and they all declined and chose to wait for the Paypal funds which I will explain later in the post.

What you have done is basically said

'I'll admit I lied ('was mistaken') without admitting I lied deliberately or apologising for this lie, then I will make up one new lie and one new misleading statement then finally call the other party an idiot'

Here are some word for word exact quotes regarding the relevant portion of your exchange with the mod to the mod which he relayed to me, then my response to the mod which I assume he relayed back to you.

The mod explaining his instructions to you

"I told him an option in retracting it was to just let me delete and I'd tell you he retracted it. If not to please explain the details of it, because it can't be left as is."

You to the mod

"You can PM him and ask if he'd like a public apology and I have no qualms with it"

Me to the mod in response

"I would like him to make a single post in the same low content thread where the accusation was made along the lines of 'the comment/accusation I made recently in this thread about SwoopAE was false, I acknowledge that it was factually inaccurate/I was mistaken or similar."

One sentence is fine and I will happily accept his apology and that will be the end of it, but I want him to admit that he made a false claim."

I went on to say that at that point the entire exchange could be kept or deleted and I would't mind either way, that would be up to you and him.

If you'd just stuck to 'I was wrong/I apologise you have not had issues selling poker action on twoplustwo I still hate you because you made a mistake posting records in a thread years ago you're poor and i'm rich blah blah' I would have happily accepted it, but you have to make something up about a 'fake name' to make me look bad and mention a 'delay' that was.... five figures and investors roughly doubling their money paid out in full to everyone within 6 days of the completion of the final tournament and with options to be paid out immediately via multiple payment methods the entire time.

In that time, I had to fly home, calculate everyone's returns, contact people to ask for their preferred payment method, raise my transfer limits on Stars, verify my Paypal as I received a request for verification for the first time and move a large sum of money from AUD cash to PokerStars, Paypal and Skrill and both domestic and international bank wires to pay people in the manner they chose.

So on to your new false claim.

So here's the original thread he was referencing

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...08/index4.html

I did not submit a 'fake surname' to Paypal, I submitted my name as it was listed on my passport at the time I made the account. I renewed my passport prior to verifying Paypal but after creating my Paypal account. Due to a stupid legislation change in Australia, my passport did not match the name on my previous passport.

Let's do some storytime and I can explain how all of the events unfolded even though no one cares.

First off, I have a two word surname due on my Australian birth certificates (I am a dual citizen and have two birth certificates, Australian and American one for each country where I have held citizenship since birth). One of my middle names is listed as part of my surname on my Australian birth certificate due to a typo. This typo did not occur on my US birth certificate and my first drivers license, passport, etc as an adult all showed my correct one word surname. Prior to this change in legislation, all of my ID showed a single word surname and that is the name I had gone by since birth.

For example, if my name was meant to be John, middle names Apple and Watermelon and surname Smith, the US birth certificate got it right and on the Australian one they gave me the name Watermelon Smith. My actual two word surname is almost as ridiculous, and it's in the staking thread if anyone really cares.

For my whole life I have gone by the single word surname on my American birth certificate eg 'Smith', which is also my parents surname. Nobody in the world has the two word surname eg. 'Watermelon Smith' on my Australian birth certificate. Why can't I just change it to the one word surname my entire family has and i've always gone by? Well I checked and no they won't fix it unless I legally change my name via deed poll which opens up a whole heap of bureaucratic nightmare plus it's time consuming and costs money.

At some stage in the late 2000s, the Australian government enacted some legislation where your government ID has to match the name on your Australian birth certificate exactly. I went in to renew my passport with the correct one word surname as it had expired, and the typo version of my name from my Australian birth certificate was now on my new passport. Of course, this didn't match any of my other ID, the name I had gone by my whole life or my parents name, but lol bureaucracy they wouldn't change it so now my Australian ID doesn't match my American ID or the name I have used in my every day life since birth, and there is literally nothing I can ever do to fix that according to the government unless I go through the legally changing my name process which will cause further ID issues for me, so this is my name now and I just have to ****ing deal with it. So now my surname is legally 'Watermelon Smith' when it was legally 'Smith' yesterday. So I did, and I figure whatever, this is my legal name now when i'm in Australia (lol at having to do that in your 20s, I still have various ID and an expired passport in my 'previous' one word surname along with my bank account that I have had since I was a child also being in my one word surname and the bank told me not to change my name it would break their system)

So, now that we've gone through the part that explains that I did not at any point give Paypal a 'fake name', let's continue.

The 'delay' you're talking about was 6 days which in itself is a completely standard timeframe for making five figures in payments across multiple currencies and payment methods and exchange rates for a package where investors had roughly doubled their money.

Let's see where those six days went

1) I had to calculate exchange rates and final share values and pay the people who wanted cash in the city the tournament was in and then fly home from the tournament. This takes a day or so.

2) I had to send a PM to all investors asking how they wished to be paid, by the method they had paid me or via a different method as I had given them options for their convenience. Some got back to me quickly, others took some time. I had 20 shareholders, some of them are slow to reply and they want a wide range of different payment methods (cash, bank transfer, stars, skrill/mb, paypal, international bank wire). Several people didn't get back to me for several days.

3) I had to arrange to purchase enough PokerStars, USD, Paypal, Skrill etc. to pay investors who wanted to be paid via those methods. Because I had clearly stated investors would cover the cost of any non AUD/Stars payments, I attempted to do this vigfree where possible for my investors so they would not be out of pocket for those that chose to take up other payment options. This is not always instant when we're dealing with a five figure sum.

4) I had to raise my PokerStars transfer limit which I did immediately to pay out the sum of money required.

Literally all of this was done within the first 24 hours

So then the next day I make a post and send PMs asking to hear back from people who haven't specified how they want to be paid yet

Then the day after that I post again.

"Annoyingly my paypal name doesnt match my ID perfectly im in the process of fixing it now. Sigh, will have everyone paid asap, if anyone doesnt want to wait i can ship on stars or mb immediately, send details, otherwise it should be with you in a few days"

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...1&postcount=83

Nobody takes me up on this offer and the investors affected re-state via PM that they are happy to wait and would still like to receive Paypal.

5) I found out I had to verify paypal and send the docs they request as above. I IMMEDIATELY OFFER TO PAY THE PEOPLE WHO ORIGINALLY WANTED PAYPAL ON STARS OR MONEYBOOKERS (SKRILL) IMMEDIATELY as you can see above. They decline and are happy to wait for PP.

6) I then keep in communication with everyone posting regular updates that Paypal wanted another round of forms, remembering that nobody who wanted Paypal asked to be paid via an alternative method despite my offer, and I would have sent instantly if they had. I send the documents as requested.

7) After a day or two, Paypal decide that a cell phone bill is not a bill and ask for additional verification. I provide it immediately and my account is unlocked. From start to finish, the entire paypal process took 3 days, all of which was spent waiting for their customer support team to unlock my account/make further requests for documentation which I provided within hours each time.

I send their original investment via Paypal and discuss with the investors whether they want the rest on PP or via Bank Wire as they are now aware of the exact Paypal fees and they decide that bank wire will have less fees and opt for a bank wire.

8) I ask for the bank wire details and immediately send when I receive the details in the investors reply to my request two days later.

9) I make a follow up post two days after that posting that everyone should have now received their funds (having given the bank wire time to arrive) in case anybody has not so they can inform me. There are no complaints by anyone at any stage of the process and the package is then deemed to be completed.

At literally no part of the process could anything have been done any differently. All investors had been paid within six days, and in one case an extra two days on top of that for part of it because THEY changed their mind after a discussion with me regarding how they wanted to be paid the rest of the money and hadn't provided me with their bank details yet and I sent the same day they replied with their bank details. The funds were sent and everyone was happy.

Additionally, at no stage did any investor complain either publicly or privately about anything that happened, in fact one investor mentioned that Paypal had done a similar thing to him.

So to sum up, you did not apologise to me for your LIE that I had experienced issues selling poker action on 2p2 as you told the mods you would, I appreciate and accept you admit you were mistaken however in the same post you immediately lie about me sending paypal a fake name (an entire fabrication, at no point did anyone even allege that in the thread in question), then you make it sound like I slowpaid people when that is misleading at best and then imply that i'm stupid. If the paypal issue had not occurred or those who originally wanted paypal had agreed to be paid via any other payment method (skrill, bank wire or stars) immediately, it would have taken 3 days instead of 6 and if investors had replied to PMs instantly (guess what not everyone is online 24/7), it would have taken 2 days at most, one of which was spent paying people in person then flying home.

In the end, we'll leave it at I appreciate that your statement that you were mistaken. I don't personally believe it was an honest mistake at all given your history of making false claims about me (this is the second time the mods have forced you to retract a false and defamatory statement about me), but I can't prove otherwise, so I will accept that you just made a mistake.

If you could kindly retract your statement that I gave Paypal a fake name and clarify that no investor money was ever delayed from being paid without their explicit instructions to wait for a particular payment method to become available and that I gave all investors multiple valid options for immediate payment in full, we'll call it a day here.