Well, I guess that was a fairly convincing win. At least I made something from the effort.

Just a beautiful day for racing. Zenyatta with just an amazing amazing amazing race. Proud to be a horse player today, just unreal.

If you saw some of my earlier posts, you saw that I hit pretty well today. Great day of handicapping by me, mediocre day of betting. Hit my $150 Win on Zenyatta to get me to a +$460 profit for the day. I'm happy, but could have been better with a few of the place horses coming in first.

F-it, give the HOY to Zenyatta. It's a shame we'll never see her go against Rachel. You got to play to win, and I think Zenyatta should get some serious consideration here. Rachel ducks the tougher race in the Travers and then doesn't show up to the biggest race of the year. Interesting to see. As Mike Smith said, "Horse of the Decade!!!"

RIP Bobby Frankel

Wow, I didn't even know he was sick, I've been out of the loop the past few months.

RIP Bobby, one of the best ever.

Are we allowed to discuss proper Racing on here? I ask because the best horse in the world runs at Haydock on Saturday.

I love horse racing glad there is a Horse Racing Thread.

Zenyatta for Horse of the Year.!

Good race it was as well, very close finish. One of the very rare occasions where the betfair market got the photo finish wrong, as well.

Can I throw a dumb question in here, please? Sorry if it's imbecilic or asked before somewhere.

In the following race card snippet (horse, weight, jockey), are the three horses carrying the same weight or not? In other words, do cards show the final weight, or the weight before allowances and penalties?

Snowdrift(ex7) 10-6 Fred Marple
Hoople 10-6 Tony Harris
ShockHorror 10-6 Mr Ray Neon(5)

I wish I had the answer for you here Ooda, these are euro PPs right?

I know the US PPs show racing weight with apprentice allowances in parenthesis.

Hopefully, someone from the other side of the pond will answer.

Snowdrift must have a handicap rating of 7 below the other two but is carrying a penalty, presumably for winning last race and handicap hasn't been reassessed. carries 10-6
Hoople carries 10-6
Shock Horror carries 10-1 as jockey's 5lb claim is taken off published weight.

Published weights include penalties and allowances such as 3yo allowance or fillies allowance. the only exception as far as i am aware is jockeys allowance, which I presume is because the jockey can be changed prior to a race, whereas the age or indeed gender of the horse cannot.

Brilliant answer, thank you Icarus. The obvious problem with taking the jockey's allowance off in advance hadn't occurred to me.

Thank you Kevroc also. Yes, my example was from what I see in UK racing papers and sites.

Horse of The Year?

Ok,its time,lets get this HOY figured out once and for all here on 2+2. It has been a month now since the BC,so that should be fair enough time for everyone to have a fair view as to why either RA or Big Z should win HOY. I will give my response tomorrow evening after everyone else has a chance to respond. Tell us why you like 1 over the other,or dont,just say which one you like is fine also. So nows the chance for the horse regs from this forum to give their opinion.

And on a side note,Jess Jackson you sir are a TOOL! Referring to his DRF interview today,explain more on that with my vote tomorrow.

Have to give to Zenyatta. RA skipping 2 hugh races this year. Although I will have to say had RA showed for the BC I doubt Zenyatta would have been entered in the classic.

IMO Mike Smith might have been right " HOY? (Female) Horse of the Decade" . I guess RA's connections are totally against a heads up match again the big Z. Seems they have more to lose than to gain. Although I think it would be great for the sport in general from a Marketing standpoint.

You're totally getting this one wrong. RA's connections were totally against her running on synthetics. If Z had left California, especially if it was before October when RA was shut down for they year, they definitely would have met her.

Also, the person saying RA 'ducked two big races' has an odd take on things. While skipping the BC because of the synthetic track could reasonably be considered 'ducking', I'm not even sure what the other race was...maybe the Travers? Or the Belmont? In any case, RA had the most ambitious campaign of any three year old filly since Busher in the 1940s, so I think any accusations of ducking are ridiculous.

What this vote should come down to is whether you prefer a relatively easy campaign of only five races, all (except one) under similar conditions, with one amazingly awesome win (for Zenyatta) or a super ambitious campaign with three wins against males sandwiched around a pair of 20 length wins but skipping the BC (for Rachel). I'd vote for Rachel, but can see either side...especially since I think Z got screwed out of the award last year against Curlin, and RA will get another shot at it next year.

The general point most fans miss is that trainers point their horses for races that favor their chances. With some notable exceptions (I always think of Swaps/Nashua) trainers will not go out of their way to prove their horse undoubtedly superior when conditions are not favorable (or at least neutral), unless the reward is so great that it overrides the risk of failing.

RA was obviously not well suited to run at a distance, so Asmussen never had her run a distance. The Preakness, at 1 3/16, was probably her limit, and everybody knows that track favors speed. So she skipped the Belmont, and she skipped the Travers, both classic races, because there were enough "quality" races for her to run at her profile distance: 1 1/8 miles. Her connections knew that winning these races, against males, although certainly not as impressive as winning a Preakness/Belmont/Travers combo, would probably be enough for media/fans (and most importantly breeders) to consider RA a phenomenal talent. It should also be obvious to anyone that RAs running style would put her at a strategic disadvantage on most artificial surfaces, in particular ProRide at Santa Anita, or at classic distances of 1 1/4 and up. There was really no compelling reason for Asmussen/Jackson to send RA across country to compete in Zenyatta's backyard, at a distance not well suited to RA, as most people who needed to be convinced of her phenomenal ability were already convinced.

With all that being said, Zenyatta clearly had the best performance in the race that counted most. Whether this means she gets HOY probably comes down to a religious war between the supporters of the 2 camps. There is precedent for horses with abbreviated campaigns to get Eclipse awards. Seattle Slew only had 3 races as a 2YO yet won Eclipse honors. Several turf Eclipse honors have been awarded to horses that have had 2 or less races on turf. IMO I don't believe the number of races to be of primary importance in determining HOY. Also, if Jackson had instead a horse with a running style that was well suited to classic distances/artifical surfaces, I don't believe he would have avoided the BC classic.

2009 HOY is Zenyatta IMO

I was very opinionated earlier in the year and insisted that Big Z couldnt beat RA because she would of been to far ahead,and i was right and wrong. At the distances that RA won her races for just an amazing summer over several different dirt tracks she probally does beat Big Z,but at a Classic distance of 1 1/4 Zenyatta wins on dirt or Synth.

I saw every race by Big Z,and she really caught my eye at Oaklwan,(dirt).And she was headed and worked her campaign with one thing in mind this year, the BC period,whether it was going to be the Classic or the Ladies Classic,she was going to be in the BC no matter where it was going to be held. Jess Jackson being once bitten,twice the coward,never had any intention of ever having RA run in the BC because of the surface,and because of Curlins performance last year on it. Jess Jackson the same guy who purchased RA AFTER she was a freak.....Just something about me with this guy and his richardhead statements yesterday....Guy woke up on 3rd base and thinks he hit a triple....Be like purchasing the Bronx Bombers before this years playoff run....take all the credit JJ it was all you lol....

Ok feel better ...Short of it is JJ you had your chance,you chose to skip,now the counts 3-2 and theres no way you swing because of the cowards soul you've shown,only chance you have is it to be called a ball,and the voters reward a fantastic and deserving horse.

For my feelings on Zenyatta is just awww,i again forgot about the money this year,because i got a little cowboy during after,and after,and after some more...I have no idea why a horse can make me feel like a little kid again,watching her dance for us before her amazing show,and i swear she would of went around again if some of them wanted too,...amazing to me...ive watched the replay hell 50 times on bloodhorse,and that roar at the top of the turn,then then frenzied roar at the 1/8 pole...forgett about it....i just laugh....I never felt that way once when RA won,i was very impressed,but never blown away like with Big Z.

It takes a bonafide ****** to claim Zenyatta has accomplished more than RA this year.

Takes an equally mentally challenged individual to accuse Jess Jackson/Rachel Alexandra of ducking after all she faced in the spring/summer while Zenyatta spent most of 2009 pounding tomato cans into the ground.

Zenyatta is tha nuts

Bonafide ****** here!! Zenyatta is horse of the year. No question about it.

Hi ******.

Nevermind that Rachel beat most of the major contenders in the classic on THEIR prefered surface. Dirt.

But I won't let the facts get in the way of your stupidity. Carry on.

Wasn't aware that Mine that Bird and Summer Bird were the only two other horses in the classic. LOL , Go to room room now son, men are talking. Your out of your league here. Stick to the Mets, LOLOLOL

You're dumber than a sack of dog****. I usually don't argue with such specimen, but it's late and I'm about ready for bed, so I'll make an exception before i doze off..


Rip Van Winkle, 3-1 - Entered the race with two quarter cracks. First career race on poly track. Has 8 starts in Europe, all on turf.

Summer Bird, 6-1 - First career race on poly. Rachel decimated the Belmont/Jockey Club Gold CUp winner by 6 lengths in the Haskell, on dirt, his prefered surface.

Twice Over, 9-1 - First career race on poly. 15 career starts in Europe, all on turf.

Einstein, 10-1 - 7-year old near the end of his career, his best races ever were on Churchill dirt and turf. Only 2 career poly races, the best was a second against a weak Pacific Classic field.

Richard's Kid, 11-1 - Started the year struggling against $50k listed stakes horses in the Maryland circuit. Moved out to California and improved enough to upset a soft PC field at Del Mar.

Colonel John, 11-1 - Hasn't won a race on poly since his 2 year old campaign. His only wins since have been on Saratoga dirt and Del Mar turf. Sucked nuts for 6th in this same race last year.

Gio Ponti, 12-1 - Has a poly win in 2 poly starts but has shown to clearly prefer Turf. His poly sheets figures are 2-3 points slower than his top turf numbers that he's repeated race after race.

Mine That Bird, 14-1 - Absolutely hates the plastic tracks. Struggled on it as a 2 year old at Woodbine, struggled in the prep race for the Classic at Santa Anita. Beaten on his best surface by Rachel at Pimlico.

Girolamo, 25-1 - First career poly race.

Regal Ransom, 39-1 - 2nd career poly race, first was a clunker as a 2-year old.

Awesome Gem, 52-1 - One of the few horses in the field with lots of poly experience, with no wins on it this year in 3 poly starts. Too slow to compete on any surface against these.




Yes. We're blown away by her majesty beating this mighty field of accomplished poly runners.

Who else did she beat this year to earn this HOY honor? Oh yea.. That's right. West Coast mare tomato cans. Some of them by a WHOLE LENGTH!

Anyone that thinks RA is a lock, just go onto your race replay website, and watch the breeder's cup classic. Turn up the volume, listen to the call, listen to the crowd, listen to the commentary afterward, and then tell me Zenyatta should have NO CHANCE at HOY. Impossible.

Zenyatta would have my vote, undoubtedly.

Zenyatta's unbeaten performances, plus winning the BC Classic, will win her horse of the year. The Classic victory was the icing on the cake that did it.