Anybody know what weight the horse actually carried in these races:

#14: http://www.racingpost.com/horses/res...race_id=100067
#1: http://www.racingpost.com/horses/res...race_id=100733

It looks like the jockey allowance (small super-script number after jockey's name) is subtracted from the weight in the weight column (as expected).

It also looks like extra weight ("EW" symbol after the weight) isn't added to the weight in the weight column (kinda as expected - meaning this needs to be added on).

But what weight is actually carried by the horse when there is a mixture of extra weight, over weight ("OW" symbol) and out of handicap weight ("OH" symbol)?

My best guess is it's the sum of all 3 added to the base weight, but that leads me to the next thing:

What does a negative out of handicap weight mean, see

#4: http://www.racingpost.com/horses/res...race_id=100884
#4: http://www.racingpost.com/horses/res...race_id=101613

(I guess it could just be a data-entry typo?)

Please help!

Juk

EDIT: Just in case the 3 different types are confusing, here is what they are defined as:

Extra Weight = Penalty of Xlbs incurred for win since allocation of weights.
Over Weight = Jockey unable to make intended weight by Xlbs.
Out of Handicap Weight = Horse merited Xlbs less than the minimum weight.

Aqueduct 2/17/14

1.) 5-3-6
2.) 5-1-4
3.) 1A-2-7
4.) 2-1A-1
5.) 1-4-8
6.) 1-6-7
7.) 4-2-8
8.) 10-5-8
9.) 5-4-3
10.) 5-4-10

Some tougher races at the Big A today imo I think the 8th and 10th are the most wide open of todays races. GL with your plays today fellas.

Hey Juk, I wish I was more educated on handicap weights in EU. Here n the states, handicap racing is merely dead. Theres not that many handicap races anymore cos trainers dont appreciate carryin the extra weight. When we do have 1, it usually doesnt get more than 8 runners cos of trainers pure dislike for them.
One thing to consider in ur weights is when an "apprentice jockey" is riding, they get a weight break. They get a 7lb reduction until they have won 20wins, then it goes to a 5lb reduction once uve had 50 wins & then down to 3lbs once uve had 95 winners.
So keep in mind, that if an apprentice rider had been named to ride & the weight given to the horse lets say is 129 & the apprentice has only had 14 wins lifetime, he will b given a 7lb weight break, bringing his total weight for the mount down to 122.
Let me know if that helps out any....

Like a horse in the last race at oaklawn today. Horse had a troubled trip 1st time out, but its got excellent works & gets class relief today to 25kmdncl & jon court stays aboard, which is my deciding factor in here. The #3 is trained by Fires & thats Courts father-in-law & court rides everything that has a chance for him, & the horse is 7/2ml, so for court to stay with the #10 @ 15/1ml, it speaks volumes to me.

Oaklawn Race10

$50WPS #10

good luck in the 10th ATS.

by the way, i dont watch many races that Rosario rides, but he seems to panic a lot. am i off base here?

Goes off favored in the end at 5/2 & got hot & dirty. The money poured in from everywhere at every click, destroying all value there was. Pooh & pooh

I disagree, he's as cool as they come & is a world class finisher. He did what he had to do, to have a chance of winning & that was making that middle move (im sure the "A" plan was to take back & make 1 run cos there was uber speed on paper n there, but when they didnt go the 22.4 & 45.4 fractions that were anticipated, he had to make that middle move. Looke at the top 4 finishers & look at what horses were in the top 4 at the 3/4's & i bet you'll find all4 of them. Fwiw

I think it's the bookmakers who like handicap races here and as a result they sponsor them more than non-HC races (the proportion of HC to non-HC races has grown year on year because of this).

Yeah, the jockey allowance seems to have been deducted from the weights already, but still unsure on the others - I think my best bet is prolly to try and find some recent examples and then compare the weights to the sporting life and/or timeform sites to see how they agree/disagree... I have to think the negative out of handicap weight is a data-entry typo (lots of other weird stuff on racingpost site like horses with negative ages and prize structures where place 2 gets more than place 1, so not a big shock if it is).

Juk

so would you just say that he's aggressive and willing to take a chance rather than panicky? he obviously has a good rep so, i would guess most like how he rides.

i had no $ on the race or opinion about it going in, but would have rather seen him move up gradually down the backside and make his run around the 5/16ths but maybe not possible with those fractions - i basically never watch oaklawn so i have no clue how fast/slow that was (but i take it that it was slow).

Not only is Rosario a world class jockey (maybe the best in the world) but is also known as one of the most patient riders in the game. He can make a horse rate with the best of them. I wouldn't say he's aggressive or panicky. He gets live mounts and puts the horses in spots where their comfortable.

B3 broke down Rosario well and I can not think of a better jockey riding right now. I know I was critical of a ride he was on over the weekend but that is more me thinking he should win everything he is on because I do know he is a stud jockey.

Freaking Peter Fornatale is a poker guy too. Fellas I get by blind well enough that why change but when I open my eyes every now and again I am always amazed what I have missed. Was seeing what amazon had to offer for tourney books on horses and assumed his would be there but many of his poker books were. My ignorance honestly humors myself.

Not a squirrel capper like B3 so going to get caught some replays and capping there is qualifiers on Wednesday on TS and DW all week also. I was on Ride On Curlin for the TS show wager contest and alive still till this weekend and hope everyone else is also.

This

http://www.drf.com/news/del-mar-plan...irt-track-2015

Why is this good news? Safety will decline. Does the racing suffer on synthetic?

Here's my two cents on the situation...

- Del Mar will almost definitely now be a destination for the Breeders Cup

- Makes for much better racing...East coast horses will now travel to race at Del Mar... Currently no east coast tracks are run on synthetic so this is really big for races like the Pacific Classic.

- The handle will most likely go up. I know a lot of players who don't currently play synthetic tracks... Arlington, Keeneland, Del Mar, etc.... They're a lot tough to handicap.

- Now that Hollywood no longer exists maybe this is Del Mar's way of saying we want to either extend our meet or have multiple meets in a calendar year.

- A synthetic surface has a lifespan of 7 years.... So they were going to have to make a decision one way or another. IMO they made the right one. Why would they run on synthetic when the other big track in SoCal is running on dirt? Wouldn't make sense.

Safety is always a concern and Del Mar's CEO says it will be just as safe as the synthetic surface. I believe him. Del Mar's five safest seasons on record include two on dirt. These guys/groups/companies don't want to see horses euthanized... Neither do we.

For all the reasons B3 stated. Del Mar will now be a BC destination in consideration. I mean a BC where the surf meets the turf on the real stuff

I do not think like you I suppose Midwest but I respect your opinion. I for the life of me can not figure how running a horse on something unnatural to what they have their entire lives is safer. That said that is about as far as I go thinking about the safety issue with horses. I expect the takeout I pay each day etc goes to a track and they are responsible for the horses safety so I am not going to burden myself with even thinking about that part. I am a horseplayer and handicapper not a trainer but I would imagine that the news will come as favorable to most of them as well. The reason I have never got to that side of horse racing is because if I have a horse he is going everywhere with me and no one is going to tell me different

TS Qualifier today going to try again to get in on the cheap. Good luck on everyone's plays.

I really didn't have a opinion just asking. I know very little about horse racing I was under the impression synthetics were easier to maintain and safer. Did not realize they were as hated by trainers and handicappers

The Euro's dont hate it.... Go ahead & do some research, & i can almost guarantee u that the 2 years SA held the BC when they had a synthetic surface, were the two years that the most euro horses attended.. The euros loved having the main track races on synthetic cos it suited them & there horses & thats why more euro horses than ever attended those 2 years. After all, it is suppose to be a "world" competition& if the best horses in another continent have never even raced on conventional dirt, those trainers will b extremely reluctant to globe trot for the main track races. When Zenyatta won her Classic, there was "RipvanWinkle", & "Twiceover" representing Europe & that made it seem as tho she beat the world (as dumb as that may sound), & now we will b lucky to get 1 euro in the race if any imho. I had no idea Delmar was even considering a main track change, & I for one am tottally opposed!!!! Do u guys not remember the old delmar dirt track?????? Speed, speed, speed & some more speed. The old keeneland dirt track was the same way, nobody could hardly pass & it wasnt until they installed the poly at keeneland did the racing get so good there imo, & delmar had the exact same surface installed as them & then boom, the racing product became much better at delmar. I for 1 cant stand a track where all the winner has to do is get the lead by the 1st qtr split & there home free. It makes for a horrible product & a 1 dimensional racing style. So if there gonna install a dirt track, then get it right!!! Make sure its not gonna b speed bias 99% of the time.
I thought the track renovation was for the turf course so that it could b extended to a full 1mile turf oval & accommodate the BC committee so they could b eligible to hold a BC, bcos they are now getting the new fall meet to fill the void of bfair & that would have them open during the time of year BC runs & renovating the old 7/8ths mile turf course was all they needed to do. Btw, the reason all the tracks went to synthetic surfaces in Cal was by order of the Cal Racing board & it wasnt until SA had a nightmare with theres, did they lift the rule. So delmar put the surface in origionally by order.

http://www.drf.com/news/mucho-macho-...-adena-springs

Almost like you knew what you were talking about ATS ;-)

Seriously though, even before this story your point about MMM getting appearance money/etc. made a ton of sense. My point really was only that he can get ~ the same money for coming 4th or 5th in Dubai as he can for winning the SA Handicap, so why not try for the jackpot? But I think you were right, when you figure in additional show-up money, potential for a series being established, etc., etc., it tilts towards keeping him home. Then when you add in that they were apparently making a deal with Stronach, it's a no-brainer (they said before, around the time they announced he was going to SA, that they were close to a deal but not quite there, so pretty obvious now that they were working out the fine points w/ Stronach).

On the subject of Del Mar, my understanding was that they had already planned to renovate the turf course, and decided to do the dirt in addition since the poly was going to need a facelift anyways. I think the shift back to dirt is overall good for them. I doubt very much that you'll see a flood of east coast handicap horses as others ITT have predicted, after all SA has been running dirt a few seasons and you don't see it happening there (but more's the better if it works out that way!). Certainly they're going to move to the front of the BC hosting discussion as soon as they're ready to bring it back to the west coast. I'd think it's east coast bound after this residency at SA. Gulfstream seems like a good bet to get the next one, IMO, and Del Mar in 2016 after they run a season on dirt and confirm that it isn't a mess.

fyi - Normany Invasion is making his 1st start since 4th place finish in Kentucky Derby last year. 4th at GP on saturday.

Yes pdiggz thanks looking forward myself to that race. ATS but gl man...

They have Hellmers on set on HRTV right now and cracking me up...I like Christian he cracks me up (I wear my belt on my waist though) and if you get through the fog he has good info.

Think I am done reading and like the people I do but for me I figure it out on my own and really it is reading info I already know anymore. Some people take themselves so serious as cappers in this business where I take capping serious but myself not so much.

Looking at the Risen Star and FOY pp's right now have to put it for that on TS and their contest not in the Saturday one today or anywhere this weekend but may try to get at the late PK 4's today. GL on everyone's plays today.

Normandy Invasion opens up at 1/9.. I wouldn't take even money on him today. Not sure if they are changing tactics or not but Gulfstream plays to speed. NI usually comes from the clouds. He will have to be much closer today.

Wins impressive against easy company... A lot closer to the pace today... Hopefully this horse puts together a solid 4 year old campaign.

Absolute jogging exercise that was

Huh? Im slow & im not sure what this refers to honcho?

Yea it was a public workout. $2.40 is a joke. That's a losing bet over the long haul.