Eh? Who said either were fixed? The refereeing was disgracefully inconsistent though - also Arsenal's moaning was pathetic. Did they not remember Bednter's softest of penalties last week (very similar) and Wilshere is turning into a mini-wenger. You never see Messi calling for cards or badgering the ref or diving. He gets on with it.

Def a chelsea fan or a yiddo

Wilshere is a legend. His Twitter is great.

or not. City (before the money)

Surely you're joking.

Barcelona (Messi included) is a team of diving shithouses. In fact I can't think of worse offenders of the things you listed. That's why for all the beautiful football they play I can't really enjoy watching them. The way they acted in the Clasico despite being utterly dominating was disgraceful.

And I haven't even mentioned their constant talking in the press about players that should join them and their general houlier-than-thou attitude.

Arsenal v Barca will be nice game of spot the non-cheater. Can't wait.

At the risk of quickening this thread's departure in to Sporting Events, the non cheaters will be in red and white shirts.

Anyway, football:

Malta to win first half vs Switzerland - Skybet 11 or Betfred / bet365 10.

LOL international friendlies, I know, but I think they could nick it.

Too much exaggeration to take seriously. Worst offenders - ever watched Man Utd (rio in the face of refs/terry), divers such as Juventus players/The whole Italian league and players like Fab calling for cards. Holier-than-thou vis-a-vis football describes Wenger perfectly (although he is a nice guy by all accounts). His arrogance and calling out wolves players for tackling hard, not shaking Phil Brown's hand ater the Hull (after Fab reportedly spat) was shocking. He asked his players not to shake hands with Sheff United after they held them to a draw by playing hard-hitting football.

You can't enjoy watching them? I don't really know how to respond to this.


This doesn't affect me either. As a city fan it would be slightly hypocritical. Not every player is perfect and I couldn't really defend Balotelli's attitude for instance.

As opposed to last year's match which was one of the best performances in history in the champs league by Barca? - I didn't see too much cheating/bad sportsmanship..

Apologies for the tone but you cannot hate/slag off Barca. It's really that simple. My post didn't really demand any footballing knowledge but I can tell you've i've watched almost all their matches as it's part of the job. Anyway, don't feel like an argument (check the christiano ronaldo thread which was fun) so gl!

Btw if anyone is interested (probably not!), I could write a full statistical breakdown of Arsenal Barca which I've been planning - player vs player match-ups, passes, shots on target, goal expectancy etc etc

Believe me I've watched more than enough Barca games. And I don't feel I'm exaggarating in the slightest. And saying that Messi doesn't dive is just ridiculous to be frank. The same way the English media turns a blind eye on "Stevie Starfish" and "Honest Wayne".

Obviously there are others that are just as bad (Ronaldo for example). But as I said Barca field 11 Ronaldos week in week out. With that little bastard Busquets being the worst of the bunch. I see you mentioned Fabregas. He would fit right in there as well.

There isn't a team in world football I despise more than Barcelona which is saying a lot considering their fantastic abilities. And I hope that after inevitably raping Arsenal they will face United, Chelsea or even Inter when they are on top of their game to be completely shutdown again for 180 minutes so that Xavi will give his prepared anti-football speech.

Whether accidentally or on purpose, you are in the minority. I think you'll agree that Messi has more opportunities to dive than any other player in the world for obvious reasons. Occasionally, diving - in the 'Ive been touched lightly but I'll go down sense' is (unfortunately) necessary. Messi exaggerates yes to get the fouls and has dived - not denying that. Forum speak such as 'You're wrong' is usually awful but..fans, commentators, other players on the whole speak contrarily about Barca compared to you. In my personal view, you are singling out players who are very low on the dive list. Your critisicm of Xavi is also unjustified. Xavi complained that Chelsea play boring football and shut the door. There is a huge difference between him insulting one of the best teams in the world for their boring football in a CL game and Wenger complaining that Hull went in too hard and didn't want to play football. He is correct - their quality of football is the best in the world by a distance.

Enjoy the video. As much as a compilation video can do (although this happens in most matches), it proves my point. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sJhh...layer_embedded

He also did it after drawing against some La Liga team (can't remember which one though) last season. I mean how dare they not play free-flowing football against Barcelona who are 100x better than they are

Do you think it's okay for him to critisize his opponents for their tactics? It doesn't get much lower than that. Chelsea played them the only way you can play them (as did Man Utd the year before). Otherwise they would have just as easily been embarressed as Arsenal. Inter's approach was even more extreme as their goal was to avoid possession of the ball completely and they subsequently produced one of the greatest defensive performances of all time. Again Barca players were moaning about the way they played. This is what I mean with holier-than-thou. And it makes me sick.

There are just too many examples where they showed their lack of class. The blatant diving when they were 3-1 down to Inter (Messi and Alves in particular), the constant talking about Fabregas in the press by Messi, Puyol, Xavi and others (which is extremely disrespectful to Arsenal), Guardiola refusing to give Ronaldo the ball when he wanted to take a quick throw-in, turning on the water sprinklers on celebrating Inter players. The list goes on.

Xavi diving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6MUPDdNQqE
Iniesta diving: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gZy2agnHfU
Busquets lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDrV7...eature=related

Going back to the Inter game. My favourite scene was when Messi wanted a free kick for absolutely nothing just before the 2-1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJFqmW63grA @5:03. Needless to say he gets these calls 100% of the time in Spain.

I'll preface by saying these will be my last points on the subject but I look forward to reading your thoughts.

I don't really know how to respond since you didn't tackle my suggestions that this is commonplace with Wenger etc doing the same vis-a-vis complaining, Ferguson etc. From watching world football in every league imaginable you will find this everywhere.

Barcelona's attitude in the Inter game cannot be compared to Chelsea's attitude in the Barca game with Drogba's crazy antics. Barcelona moan, dive occasionally but play the best football in the world and possibly ever. I for one can let it go. I'm sure you have but I suggest watching any match in Serie B (and to a lesser extent Serie A) and other teams in Europe. I could name 50 players (and find 100 more if I looked more carefully) who display worse moral characteristics than the Barca team.

As for the tapping up of Fab by the players..firstly, he is their teammate and they are asked questions constantly about whether they'd like him to join - they are his friends as well. Secondly, just to be clear: Arsenal were charged by the FA over tapping up Lescott and Agbobonlahor. They are accused of tapping up walcott (as said by Southampton) pennant and many more players - the same is true of Man Utd and even my beloved Man City. It happens - for a Barca player to want one of the best mids in the world who happens also to be their friend is just normal (although frowned upon when conducted in such a way). Lastly, Fabregas himself admits he was tapped up by Real Madrid as well.

You brought up Guardiola's attitude - compare again to Wenger's refusal to shake hands, telling his players which I have already stated. I am not anti Arsenal per se but it is their holier than thou attitude that riles me. They complain people don't play attacking enough but when finally barca did, they got crushed. Some of this complaining is bravado. Barca are telling the world what they already know - they play beautiful football and sometimes it doesn't work against tight teams who play counter attack (Barca vs Hercules 0:2 being the best example).

I do enjoy debating but this isn't the place for it especially as you won't see past their questionable (but no worse than most teams') antics and enjoy the football. Anyone can show you a video of a dive as it is so commonplace - I showed clear instances of where Messi could have dived (remember he is the most or top 3 fouled players in the world) and he chose not to do so. Unfortunately players do it and very little will be done about it - the risk is always worth the reward for diving (shown by the Eduardo ban overturning). RVP, Totti, Dep Piero, Gillard, Toni, Walcott, Cavani, Robben, Gerrard all appear to agree.

And to cull the exaggeration once more. Messi doesn't get the decisions 100%, not even close. The quality of refereeing in Spain is good on the whole and he is treated by most as an exceptional player who draws a lot of fouls.

It would be better to praise the top tier players who do not dive. Anelka for instance very rarely goes down if there is a chance of scoring and he is not fully impeded. Same for Fat Ronaldo in his heyday. Nigel De Jong will dish it out and take his punishment.

I put this to you. When considering the greats of football, let us take Zidane and Rivaldo. When we think of both we remember the head-butt (much much worse than diving) and the 'hands on the face' fake from Rivaldo. For a moment we laugh at that one moment or couple of incidents and then all is forgotten when remembering their exceptional football. Rivaldo's outstanding scoring record for Barca and Brazil is, admittedly slight underrated but not tarnished. Maradona committed the ultimate sin - cheating to go through in a world cup match - worse than diving. They won the match 2:1 and won the WC and is regarded as the best ever. My point is that people forgive - imo you should do the same but I respect your quest for football morality. I just think it is a tad unrealistic.

Can somebody reputable with a Coral account make a bet for me please?
I'll let you take 1/2 the Max bet if you'd like ...

Game is tomorrow.

I am interested. This is a sports betting question here, not a sporting events question.

What do people think of the following bets:

Barcelona to advance to quarterfinals
Real Madrid to advance to quarterfinals
Barcelona on the spread for 1st and 2nd games

My reasoning is that Barcelona is the best and Arsenal has a history of not being able to compete with the best teams (Man U, Chelsea, Barcelona). In particular, Arsenal was killed by Barcelona. Barcelona has only had problems with teams that FOCUS on defense (chelsea, inter), but Arsenal is incapable of that.

Real Madrid bet is just a bet on jose mourinho and his incredible record.

I want to place big bets on all these so any thoughts? In particular, any reason to think that arsenal or that french team can give my teams problems?

Mexico at -150 appears to be a decent bet. Netherlands at -385 over Austria is also a possibility. Anyone else have plays on these friendlies?

arsenals big team problems is incorporated into the line
jose mourinho being a good coach is incorporated into the line

both variables are very likely to be overvalued by the market instead of the other way around.

i'd be willing to book both your bets if you are interested.

Astyanax, I'll keep this brief as it's really a bit off-topic.

I singled out Barcelona since we you made a point about Messi never doing any of this stuff which I responded to. I'm well aware of all the stuff that Wenger says and does (Arsenal are in many ways a mini Barca) and I'm also aware of the Ronaldos, Drogbas and Rooneys of the world. I hate diving and unsportsmanlike behaviour no matter who does it. I'm just saying that among the big teams in Europe that you get to see regularly Barca are the worst for me (forgive me that I can't comment on the antics of some random Serie B team). I don't deny that their usual portrayal as God's gift to football may have some influence on that view.

My 2 bets for today:

Josh Simpson to Score @ 9 (Coral)
Atiba Huthinson to Score @ 11 (bet365)

Especially love the first one. Josh is one of the leading scorers in Turkey playing on a midtable Manisaspor side. Possible penalty taker as well.

Also, O 2.5 in that game @ 2.10
In short, this isn't going to be the same boring Greece you saw at the World Cup with the departure of Otto Rehhagel. Canada too is going to look to play an attacking game like the one they played in Ukraine.

fml I run horrendous when posting picks in this thread ...

i'm always wary of betting on friendlies as there's a huge tendency for anyone who's any good to be "injured" etc and not play so the bigger teams will have weaker lineups than usual. that plus a ton of substitutions make it crapshooty

that said austria are pretty awful, as is that line on holland, -300 is widely available

Do not bet on friendlies!

Russia 0-1 Iran.

err......

so....

in friendlies, favorites tend to win less often than market price is suggesting.....

the conclusion you draw from this is... don't bet on friendlies? are you all collectively ******ed?

Harsh but true. If these friendlies are so 'unpredictable' and there is less information then surely the chance to find wrongly priced matches and +EV bets is bigger than in your average EPL match for example.

This is up there with parlaying short favourites 'to get more value' and other pieces of advice you see on betting forums.

wow, -300? i only had one option, since i don't wager online, and i figured the netherlands win this match at least four out of five times w/their lineup today, so i thought it was a good bet. at -300, i'd have risked a whole lot more.

i just cannot envision arsenal winning this or real madrid losing. how could thta happen?