I think there's almost no chance byul is involved in the MK game given what a mess it became with the pretending not to see the all in. Way too messy and uncoordinated to involve both players.

I also have big doubts over inno matchfixing. It wasn't obvious in game and there's a general trend towards the big companies (KT, Samsung, CJ, Jin Air) staying clear of match-fixing. Also, such a prominent player has so much to lose, etc. I think it goes against the general trend of throws. Still, it is extremely hard to explain.

Almost certainly info is being sold and this is not a tight operation hence such ridiculous line movements. Also supported by Swoop being contacted and Samsung Solar being contacted a while back. For this reason, I think the steam on Terror is likely misinformation and not a conspiracy to throw ppl off the scent. Given how ridiculously obvious they have been up until now, I don't think they would ever try to 'balance their range' and hope for the issue to die down.

Swoop - I give you great credit for your patience on TeamLiquid and I appreciate you trying to make this a wider issue. The ignorance on there infuriates me so much I had to quit reading. It is amazing how delusional people are capable of being in the face of overwhelming evidence.

After reading some arguments and re-thinking certain points i changed my position about Byul's involvement. I probably put too much weight in my beliefs on how Proleague players approach the matches with the massive skill advantage, (plus some other stuff)

However, there could be a small % chance that its not only the players, but more like whole teams or rather coaches are involved - then it would make more sense for matches being 'choreograph'ed. Like MKP being told to throw and Byul's being told that MKP will play 3 CC without any defense.

Sure its just some additional paranoid speculation. But at this point, after a complete silence coming from Korea its not totally impossible.

ps. 70% of the posts in the TL thread still deliver me a substantial brain damage. Props to you Swoop for posting in that sea of delusional sheeps.

Most of them are just uneducated about betting and don't understand how overwhelmingly unlikely it is that this is all some saudi prince or whatever.

Re: inno game, I mean, it got cancelled etc but it could be match fixers balancing their range. I agree that the bigger teams seem less likely to be involved, their players are probably paid decent salaries compared to players on Prime, Startale-Yoe and MVP but it doesn't rule them out

We're bound to get some false positives as well as all of the actually guilty people which is really unfortunate and which is why we need a proper authority to investigate this.

At the end of the day all we know is that matchfixing is happening, we have 5-6 games it's likely to have happened in (San vs Dark, Inno vs Super game 1, Super vs Dream game 1, Marineking vs Byul were all cancelled) and then Byul vs Terror, Alive vs Dark and Yoda vs Bunny all had some anomalies as well that should be looked into (some of which eg Terror Byul and the weird steam then anti-steam on Dark vs Alive may be match fixers balancing their ranges and trying to get larger bets on fixed matches not to be cancelled)

Ok received a PM on 2p2 does anyone have the betting history for the soO vs Classic

Note this is not an accusation of mine, but info I received via PM from an alleged insider who wants to remain anonymous on teamliquid

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i'm pm'ing you since i don't really want to post this in the public.
but i've heard from several korean inside sources that the GSL final between soo and classic (the one classic one) was fixed. being an intra-team final and classic being the underdog, it makes a lot of sense.

however, there's no way kespa will provide an investigation into this specific case unless substantial proof or immense pressure from the public comes in.

for one, the players were playing for sk telecom - sk telecom pretty much runs kespa (or at least, provides a significance influence over it's direction and operation). any implications towards sk telecom as an organization would effectively kill/harm kespa and/or the e-sports industry, which is why nothing is really being done right now.

also sc2 is better than it has been before in terms of viewers etc in korea. it would be devastating for the teams and sponsors if another betting scandal like the one in 2010 blew up. it's the last thing kespa wants to happen.

if possible i'd like to know what the betting lines were for that match outside of korea. i'm surprised to see many inside bettors use pinnacle instead of the domestic korean betting sites especially for stuff like proleague.

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I don't have the relevant opening/closing lines there and line history does someone have it on hand? Match happened quite a while ago obviously.

Also with regards to my betting record in thread obviously won't be counting the Byul/Marineking win as Pinnacle have cancelled it and basically stated it was fixed by doing so

that was rigged by SKT to let the less famous player win for the sake of the team's overall popularity, not to get sports betting money although that probably happened too lol

I don't know the lines from that final, I didn't bet on it.
To be honest I don't think this PM is legitimate.

"for one, the players were playing for sk telecom - sk telecom pretty much runs kespa (or at least, provides a significance influence over it's direction and operation)."

This is his only argument which makes no sense at all. sk telecom may or may not have a lot of influence. They are a cooperation who is pumping a lot of money into sponsoring a team and a league. How likely is it they try to cash back a few bucks by manipulating a finals. I don't think there is anything to that unless someone can show some acutal arguemnts/proof.

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not sure if you are serious or trolling...

100% serious

I dont even have thas match in my personal betting history. I guess the chances of someone having a line movement for this match is close to 0% at this point.

Concerning the "false positive" line movements - i am still on the fence and not sure if thats the case of them "balancing their range" and throwing the pinnacle off or a case of a false matchfix leak/some sort of an error or disagreement in the matchfixing ring.

Its probably very likely that the info about fixed matches is being sold through multiple channels, that would explain why "matchfixers are so greedy/stupid that bets get voided" = in reality just the uncontrollable crowd of gamblers with the information about the match being a fix.

Eitherway, to get some sort of the response from the officials (being it Kespa/Blizzard or whatever) - the community needs to find a way to multiply the current levels of public pressure. Because right now, its not nearly enough to get anything moving.

Are you for real?
Do your speculation have any base at all?

First of all i would challenge that premise. Did get SKT1 more popular because Classic won?
I highly doubt that.

Why would Soo and Classic do that?

Why would someone risk his job/carrier/potential law suit at SKT1 to organize that?

Having more champions is better than having less champions.

They would do that because they were told to. Remember this is Korea where people are very submissive especially with their employers and elders.

It's not a risk when you can plan it carefully. Matchfixing is only a risk when you're an idiot like MarineKing running into the last thing you expected when you're trying to lose without looking suspicious.

Also this isn't speculation, I know many people in the industry irl.

Well from what i've read probably about half of people bought into his amazing acting @5:45 - "What a genuine reaction, he is clearly surprised"

https://youtu.be/J-XbHBQAco8?t=342

No matter if Soo or Classic wins, SKT1 will have one champion.

It's always a risk if you involve other people. It's not like koreans are robots.

This is speculation until you can show some proof.

Interesting posts KoreanBrad

Are you the person who PM'd me on TL or not out of curiosity? If so PM me your TL name to confirm it?

Your speculation is interesting to me, have you got any proof or just what you've heard from your industry friends?

Yeah except Classic wasn't a past champion before that but Soo already was?

Nah I'm just a lurker here

You are poorly informed. Soo has not won a GSL a any other tournament in korea.

Oh ur right he was 2nd place but either way the point still stands classic was unknown compared to him at that time, i didn't even watch that finals tbh, I just remember all the chatter about it/why

https://youtu.be/uQrNnVE9dbc?t=22m59s

Worth watching, starts at 23mins

forget who it was in the above (think it was kane) saying that you've got to make money in korea somehow, if the individual leagues weren't so comically top heavy then there's much less incentive for weaker pros to do this sort of crap

Yeah i'm assuming there are a lot of chops but still it's tough to chop outside of the final 2/4 and even then you'd need to trust the other player same as poker

Problem is with so little money in streaming except for the most popular and only a few teams with major sponsors to pay decent wages, some of the lower tier pros get desperate, we see a similar thing in poker a lot with the busto pros who are desperate to stay in the game scamming

In before MVP and Kespa deny everything and life goes on, then we're right back here in two weeks when Pinnacle cancels another bet with another match that gets steamed to -1100 and the player loses in suspicious fashion

At this point the statement like "He was just tired and we are very sorry for the mess" will be the worst thing they could do.

I'm more inclined to think they will actually drop him out of the team as a damage control.

If the team doesn't stand by him it's pretty damning

I would assume they have access to the replay right to see Marineking's firsthand view?

Will be interesting to see what happens