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 Sports Betting Discussions related to wagering on sporting events.

 06-09-2021, 08:06 PM #6976 DicedPineapples centurion   Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 148 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting Has anyone figured out why seconds per shot is being recorded by everyone. Seems like such an arbitrary metric to track.
06-12-2021, 10:40 PM   #6977
ska55
enthusiast

Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 80
Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TomG Nice job, you get a gold star. I like your approach since it looks at the EV for a range of possibilities. Alternate solution Spoiler: Create a synthetic two-way line. Risk \$46.51 to win \$100 on Tie at +215 Risk \$100 to win \$750 on Tigers at +750 If White Sox win --> Lose \$146.51 If Tigers win --> Win \$703.49 If Draw --> Push This creates an effective bet risking \$146.51 to win \$703.49 or +480 odds for the superior Tigers two-way line (they lost yesterday are down in the series 0-1).
Thank you for posing this question, got a lot out of it. I did a similar version of what diced pineapples did, but used kelly criterion instead. I found that we should be wagering more of our bankroll on the 3 way line except for when the tigers win probability was => 0.5. Then we should be using the 2 way line.

Last edited by ska55; 06-12-2021 at 10:54 PM.

06-24-2021, 11:32 AM   #6978
grinder

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 405
Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting

Quote:
 Originally Posted by BadBeatBodog Thanks for your patience. For the HIT YES OR NO, if I want to calculate probability of no hit and I have projected PAs and hits, then I would divide hits by PA to get probability of a hit in a PA. 1 - probability of a hit in PA = the probability of no hit in a PA, and this is where I'm unsure of my bad math. Can I simply take my probability of no hit in a PA and ^ projected PAs? For example, 1.05 pHITS in 4.4 pPA would be 23.8% chance of hit/pa so 76.1 chance of no hit/pa. Can I then do .761^4.4 to get chance of no hit in the game?
Thinking I'm gonna try my hand at hits again. Also gonna bet home runs yes or no because it's the same process. But can someone tell me if it's the same process for run scored yes or no? Something in my head tells me this might not be right for calculating run scored yes or no because runs scored aren't so directly tied to PA in the same manner hits or home runs are?

 06-26-2021, 01:48 PM #6979 BadBeatBodog grinder   Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 405 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting Prop builder/bet builder whatever it is called has Wander Franco 1+ hits -118. Go smash that, it's way way way off. sorry odds changed as soon as I posted this Last edited by BadBeatBodog; 06-26-2021 at 01:49 PM. Reason: RIP
06-27-2021, 03:50 PM   #6980
TomG
Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: prop manager, crowdsource syndicate
Posts: 4,112
Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TomG New exercise for the group. Many books offer a series wager for MLB teams. When teams play a four-game series, some books offer a two-way line with a 2-2 series tie being a push. Others offer a three-way line with a tied series being a betable option. Here is an actual scenario for today. Two-Way Tigers +271 White Sox -335 Three-Way Line Tigers +750 White Sox -180 Tie +215 Where would you rather bet each side and why?
Here's another way to think about it. Calculate the no-vig line for both the two-way and three-way matchups and use the binomial theorem to back into the implied per game win percentage for each team.

 06-28-2021, 01:41 AM #6981 rabbitcoin centurion   Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Nevada, USA Posts: 165 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting I like the "synthetic 2-way" line idea and clearly the probability spaces towards the bottom of the spreadsheet have +EV. If all I had to go on were the two sets of market prices provided in the original question I would have assumed it was a "no-bet" situation though: Using the no-vig 3-way probabilities of a DET win/draw/lose={0.11,0.29,0.60} or the probabilities derived from Binomial(N=x,P=a,K=4) where x=(0,1,2,3,4) & a=avg(0.11,0.29,0.60)=0.33 with the proposed synthetic payouts of {win=\$703.49, draw=\$0.00, lose=-\$146.50} I came up with an expected value of -\$10.6 and -\$11.6 respectively. If I had a good reason to believe those markets were significantly mis-priced then naturally the EV changes, but I definitely don't know enough about handicapping baseball to make that call myself
 07-02-2021, 02:58 PM #6982 SpringerDinger stranger   Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 11 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting I'm on a book i think has many inefficiencies, specifically pitcher strikeout props. What is best to compare to for tight lines for edge? I originally compared to Bovada, but have always heard pinnacle is the tightest. And pinnacle lines actually differed pretty significantly from Bovada to my surprise. Thoughts?
 07-02-2021, 10:32 PM #6983 HiTheSyndicate stranger   Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 3 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting Whoops I said I would let everyone know how the NHL Faceoff thing went and then deleted my account. Here it is sorry guys. This is based off the Bayesian paper we talked about that accounts for hands. I only used faceoffs that had a sample size of 40 or more vs. the hand and I only used their last 200 faceoffs. The sample size was neutral only faceoffs. This created 691 games that met the criteria. I also set a min edge of 0.05 for a bet to be bettable. Of those 380 were no bets and 311 were bets. I only bet each faceoff once and no playoff bets. The total record went 184-127 Risk: \$90,411.50 Net: \$9,487.50 ROI: 10.48% Not too bad. Throughout I kept track of a system that doesn't use the approach from the paper: Net: 2462.5 on 92987.5 bet. Record: 172-141 Only two more bets not as good of a result. It was interesting project. Going forward I doubt I will bet them. It's too much work to sit there, wait for the lineups, hope it doesn't move, etc. but it is nice to show profit in the NHL for once!
 07-02-2021, 10:56 PM #6984 HiTheSyndicate stranger   Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 3 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting just out of curiosity i went back from 2016-present with the same restrictions (40 sample size, 0.05 edge). Since I don't have faceoff odds from then I just assumed they're all -115 Here's what it gave us (no backtesting, just pretending hey today is oct 15, 2016 what would the line be based on pre oct 15, 2016) 1398-937 (59.87%) 2887 no bets. so 5,222 games met the criteria. Risk: \$671,312.50 Net: \$80,112.50 (7.46%) It looks like this year we ran better than in the past (better ROI) but won less because of the shortened NHL season (56 games vs. 81). It looks like 2016 was a bad year. OUtside of that it looks about ~20k/year.That ~18k downswing at the end of 2017/beginning of 2018 looks rough.
 07-03-2021, 01:57 AM #6985 JSkelts grinder     Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Miming in the choir Posts: 547 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting Did you give each of the most recent 200 faceoffs the same weight, or was there some sort of scaling? And I don't remember the paper exactly but was it the generalized log 5 one for batters vs pitchers of different handedness?
 07-03-2021, 01:30 PM #6986 TomG Pooh-Bah     Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: prop manager, crowdsource syndicate Posts: 4,112 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting Nice results, congrats. I also messed around betting the NHL Opening Faceoffs earlier in the season. It showed a profit although I did not track results/ROI. I'd estimate I ran somewhere in the 4%-8% range. It's a good market for people willing to put in the time for a decent-sized edge. I don't think I'll bet it much anymore myself. Too fat and lazy now. Thank you to fubster and others for showing how to beat this market. That's more satisfying than the money. All of the info is in this thread for those dedicated enough to find it.
 07-05-2021, 10:43 PM #6987 DicedPineapples centurion   Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 148 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting JSkelts, the paper was "Modeling the probability of a batter/pitcher matchup event: A Bayesian approach" It's open access so it's on google. I couldn't get it to improve vanilla log5 results, but he said he didn't use the same priors as the paper. Also I don't get why the paper puts a prior on the mean of beta's prior, why not just set B ~ Normal((1,1-1),...) instead. Don't get it. Thinking about it now, it's a baseball paper so having different coefficients for batters and pitchers probably makes sense. But for faceoffs you probably just one coefficient that scales the difference inside the logistic function. Wonder if that's what DNRS did.
 07-06-2021, 12:52 PM #6988 SpringerDinger stranger   Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 11 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting Hey guys, I am currently on an offshore book that's offering lines that are pretty different than sharp books like pinnacle, providing opportunity for value, specifically on baseball total bases and pitcher strikeout props. Currently, I'm taking anything that is 15 points more favorable on my book than pinnacle, but tracking lines for actual % edge to eventually come up with a threshold that is hopefully profitable. My question is, when comparing the lines I'm getting to pinnacle (which I'm assuming are "sharp", or the "real" lines) for % edge, should I be stripping the pinnacle lines of juice (roughly 7.1%)? Again, no model is involved, I'm simply comparing prices under the assumption that pinnacle are the "real" lines (my book lags behind and barely adjusts). Any additional insight is appreciated on the best way to test this/come up with a threshold of simply comparing prices.
07-06-2021, 07:36 PM   #6989
CodythePATRIOT

Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 944
Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting

Quote:
 Originally Posted by SpringerDinger My question is, when comparing the lines I'm getting to pinnacle (which I'm assuming are "sharp", or the "real" lines) for % edge, should I be stripping the pinnacle lines of juice (roughly 7.1%)?
Yes, this is called the vig-free line.

https://sportsbettingcalcs.com/betti...ree_calculator

 07-06-2021, 08:04 PM #6990 parisron Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,920 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting Except that website is spitting out bad numbers, or I have been using bad numbers for a long time. My spreadsheet and http://sportsbettingsites.org/bettin...ig-calculator/ has different numbers.
07-08-2021, 07:48 PM   #6991
NicholasJ
veteran

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ZEF SIDE
Posts: 2,759
Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting

Quote:
 Originally Posted by parisron Except that website is spitting out bad numbers, or I have been using bad numbers for a long time. My spreadsheet and http://sportsbettingsites.org/bettin...ig-calculator/ has different numbers.
My guess is you have been using bad numbers. The calculator I built spits the same lines out as this calculator.

 07-08-2021, 07:51 PM #6992 parisron Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 14,920 Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting My wording was a bit off. The sportsbettingsites website has the same numbers as my spreadsheet. I was saying those numbers are different from the website that Cody listed. I believe my numbers are correct.
08-14-2021, 01:50 PM   #6993
TomG
Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: prop manager, crowdsource syndicate
Posts: 4,112
Re: Crowdsource Syndicate Sports Betting

Quote:
 Originally Posted by TomG New exercise for the group. Many books offer a series wager for MLB teams. When teams play a four-game series, some books offer a two-way line with a 2-2 series tie being a push. Others offer a three-way line with a tied series being a betable option. Here is an actual scenario for today.
Also, it's good to read the actual rules for series wagers instead of just assuming books will push if a four-game series ends tied 2-2.

Quote:
 Bets are based on the first 3 games played of each series. For series that have four games, the 4th game will not be considered for betting purposes.

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