Hola, been playing the worst poker of my live+running the worst I ever have, so taking a short stint at 100nl..
Weird hand vs a player that I've seen having a serious FPS condition and not very good imo (but prolly capable of some moves), he's playing 25/23/11 (prolly skewed from shorthanded play) cbetting 81%. I think he views me as pretty aggro.He hasn't been sitting for more than a few hands so no real table dynamic..
Whats my decision on the turn? Such a weird card that I bluff such a huge percentage of the time with my air, but still feels really ****ty to bet here..
Thoughts?



[converted_hand][hand_history]IPoker, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10312652

SB: $137 (137 bb)
Hero (BB): $291.10 (291.1 bb)
MP: $40.45 (40.5 bb)
CO: $100 (100 bb)
BTN: $110.97 (111 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 8
MP folds, CO raises to $3, 2 folds, Hero calls $2

Flop: ($6.50) 6 8 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $5, Hero raises to $17, CO calls $12

Turn: ($40.50) 5 (2 players)
Hero?

It is a crappy spot. Not sure if c/c or just open shoving is good.

i don't think openshoving is ever good because effective stacks are 80 and pot is only $40, so he doesn't call with much worse, maybe lower sets or over pairs, but not much else.. i'd probably prefer c/c here, because a bunch of the bets in his potential range are likely to be air.

I guess betting would be better because JJ+ with a spades will probably call.

He probably doesn't have a flush since he would get in a lot with those on the flop. He doesn't have pocket 77, I don't think he would call a big c/r with that.

Hummm... but at the same time he would probably get in on flop with JJ+, so it's less part of his range now.

I would still bet turn and probably call shove.

After calling a c/r on a draw board I highly doubt his range his more likely to be air.

I like bet/call ~25. He shouldn't have too many 7s in his opening range and I suspect this guy to jam his overpairs with a spade here a lot.

I would bet but I don't like it. Better than checking for balance purposes though.

Totally agree with this in a vacuum, still makes the river extremely hard to play a lot of the time..
Whats ur betsize on the turn? I really dont like making it big, again for balancing reasons.. And are u folding to a shove? Note I have equity in the low 20's against a value hand if shoved on...

I really doubt his jamming range consists of a lot of non-straight/flushes on the turn here, but maybe im wrong

I would bet ~26-28 and from there its a math problem but I'm pretty sure with the price you're getting you have to call a shove. should be close to 3 to 1.

Like I said, I'm certainly not thrilled about it but I fear its necessary.

River should be easy to play if he just calls. If you boat up jam, if you dont, ch/fold (except maybe turning our hand into a bluff on some spades). I don't think hes going to call turn/shove river with any hands that we beat so you don't have to worry about being bluffed.

Based on those reads I'm not folding top set on the turn with these stacks.

I'd go for the cc I think.

if he has FPS then b/c small. Halfpot bet might get him to spew and its not often he has 7x or flush. c/c is for the purpose of boating up? if we c/c are we calling all rivers?

Should have donk bet the flop. What is his raised donk bet %? C/R's sets on this board is showing huge strength...villians will come along with a ton of draws looking to stack you...

lol no. don't do this.

So if donking is horrible...what are you doing when villian checks behind on this flop? because villian should know he is going to get raised on this flop a ton -- thus he is checking back a bunch here.

If he checks back, I bet the turn. I'm not saying donking is like horrible or anything but ch/r is definitely the standard here.

I mean choosing some weird lines doesnt mean he's gonna bluff on a board like this very often. I think shipping an overpair with a spade is horrendous in villains shoes and I kinda doubt he would do this, but I might be wrong.

Also donk betting is a viable option for sure, but not against a serial c-bettor..

I did check for what it's worth and he checked back.. River was an offsuit ace and I checked again which in retrospect I think was a huge mistake... Felt like I can't represent a bluff at all with this line (thats why checking turn kinda sucks) and that my marginal value hands would check a decent amount on this card... but meh, pretty butchered overall imo...

Amazing how everyone thinks donking in not the best way to go but then say checking the turn kinda sucks...What you are all missing is, even if he is a serial c-bettor, how many turns make u hate life here...Any T, 7, 9, 5, not to mention any spade. That's almost half the deck. Bet, push the action, have the flush draws and oesd come over the top or at least make them pay.

MSauce, so you chk flop it gets chk'd back and its a 5s, you say your betting the turn if he chk'd back the flop...fine...and now he raises the turn. What are you doing?

Call and eval river. Pot is much smaller now so we can profitably call with implied.

You can donk this board if youre also going to be donking it with air sometimes/weaker hands. But you cant just do it only with sets. And I fear that most people (likely OP) are not donking a very wide range here. Most SSNL regs cbet too much anyway, hence, ch/r.

This is a board i donk a fair against ppl that check back a bunch, but it's no way this guy is checking back pretty much any draw here, maaybe some gutters but thats abt it...
And lol at saying donking is FAR superior in this spot, it is so player dependent and based on table dynamics etc.

What did he show up with? JJ/QQ with a spade?

b/c

too much equity to b/f

lose value vs 1 spade pairs/2p which he's probably only betting once anyways (if he even bets) if you check

****ty spot. your options are c/c c/f b/f b/c. they all suck. i suppose i like b/c best, followed by c/c but by no means am i thrilled.

Yeah he had QQs, no idea how that didn't all go in on the flop, well played him I suppose..