Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) On Game
SB ($112)
BB ($413)
Hero ($268)
UTG+1 ($197)
CO ($453) 27/20, 3b 5.5 (0/24 vs utg), 250 hands
BTN ($200) 19/11, 3b 2.4, 700 hands, but he was playing 12/7 after 100 hands on this table

Dealt to Hero K K

Hero raises to $6, fold, CO calls $6, BTN raises to $18, fold, fold, Hero raises to $41, CO calls $35, BTN raises to $200 (AI), Hero ?

I saw btn squeezing to that size before and then ch/f low flop so I 4bet to stackoff with him against QQ+, AK, but after CO called and he quickly shoved I guess this is KK+

Looks good...if villains overall 3bet is 2.4%, I can't even imagine what his 3bet vs UTG open would be. I would even be nervous preflop, this is not ur typical resteal squeeze spot, this is a value squeeze spot more often than not. Even if u observe villains sizing it screams "hey come on its just $12 more ". Not sure I like the 4bet preflop...I am sure people will say "results oriented" to that comment but break down villains range and determine what our 4bet will accomplish against that range and then you should notice that 4bet is really helping nobody except the villain in this spot. Villains 3bet range is not even wide enough to have any light 3bets in it let alone when faced with an open from UTG, this is one of those rare KK preflop WTF moments IMO. I think flatting and evaluating flop might have been best regardless of the action after the 4bet. Now granted there will not be many flops where we will be looking to c/f with KK but I think vs this particular villain this hand really needs a 3rd K or we are pretty much dooped. And 700 hands is enough to have a reasonable grasp on villains preflop tendencies and ranges for the most part imo so yeaa...sucky spot hope u binked on this arse clown!

LOL EDIT FROM ABOVE...I thought HH said hero folded. I only said looks good because i thought he folded to the shove. Clearly I disagree with the 4bet preflop based on my argument but I just wanted to clear that up.

i am never EVER folding KK preflop for 100BB. 4 bet/folding is ******ed. If you were going to fold you should not have 4bet.

I know what u mean, at 6max it seems like pure evil to fold KK preflop, especially 100bb deep, but now if u don't mind could u construct a range for villain that is realistic and not tailored toward justifying your argument and tell me what the plan is from there. Thnx

i'd probably flat the 3b to be honest. certainly wouldnt 4b if i intended to fold my hand preflop.

kinda doesn't seem standard to fold here...but I'm not a pro

Dont think you can fold here, when you dont know wich hands he push.

I think his range is pretty much AK, KK+

You have roughly 40 %, and you need 36 %

It sorta depends how often you think CO will come along too. ( I dont see him folding that often )

Morale of the story, dont 4B KK, when you dont know how to respond to a shove.

I knew how to respond to a shove, but I get confused after CO called my 4bet! Nobody of you have said a word about his range.
I prefer stacking with btn pre than on the flop, because his squeeze is always for value and he is folding here like never, and if I flat he is going to stackoff only on good flops, and also CO is getting good implied for setmine then.

Klondi did mention his range (AKo, AKs, KK+), which is pretty accurate imho. Per pokerstove, against this range you're almost even money. I'm calling here unless I'm positive he doesn't do this with the AKo part of his range; if you drop the AKo part, you're now a 32:68 dog, and the decision gets tougher.

kinda gross. but if you 4b here, I am calling my stack off. I don't hate it if you fold though. the hand plays itself no matter what you do imo.

also, more importantly, how do villains view you, dynamics, tilt? etc.

take your cooler like a man

^^This^^

I generally do not fold kings pre. Certainly, if I 4 bet pre 100bb deep and get raised, sick in the stomach or not, the chips go in. I am almost certain if I were in this hand all the chips go in, as I would have 4 bet also.

Is there an argument for not calling the 3 bet? I cant imagine ever folding this hand. Seems from what I have read that calling the 3 bet may have been the best play, but I am not sure.

Move up to where they respect your 4- bets . Results? Did they both have aces?

NVM my original post, I missed part of the OP and posted something ******ed.

Is CO good/solid? Would he really flat AK here twice? It seems really bad to flat AK the second time around, he should be shoving or folding and I think most players would.

lol

I don't think I could have enough respect for CO to fold this.