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NL100: planned a stop and go. Is this a bad card? NL100: planned a stop and go. Is this a bad card?

01-19-2008 , 01:25 AM
I was playing one table tonight, working on my game and my reads. Villain is 17/12/5 with a zero percent fold to cbets over 200 hands. I think he has air here quite a bit, as I saw him bluff raise flops a couple times in position, and when he raised the flop I planned a stop and go. But I don't know whether this is a good card or a bad one because if he had air, an A is in his range. Donk out? And if so how much?

Poker Stars $0.50/$1.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: $15.85
CO: $105.15
BTN: $103.30
Hero (SB): $105.35
BB: $274.60

Pre Flop: Hero is SB with 9 9
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB calls $3

Flop: ($8.00) Q 2 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, BB raises to $20, Hero calls $14

Turn: ($48.00) A (2 players)
[color=red]Hero...
01-19-2008 , 01:38 AM
step 1 - this is not a stop n go. a stop n go is when you call pre OOP, then open push the flop. its a tourney play really and its pretty much the bluffiest line in the world (you'll get looked up a lot)

step 2- plz construct a range where you should be caling the flop raise... i don't think there is a reasonable one
01-19-2008 , 01:45 AM
This is a play that showed up in a DJ sensei video, and he called it a stop and go. But if I put that I would get a whole bunch of posts about how I am not Dj sensei.


The point of me playing a single table all night was to work on my reads. And the range of hands I have him on that makes this a good flop call is air. As I said in the original post, he did this a number of times with air.
01-19-2008 , 01:50 AM
I am not a big fan of the flop play. It is important to remember that just because he might raise there with air, he well also be raising his top pair or better hands, and you are out of position for the rest of the hand.

Given that you called, if you think air is such a big part of his range then you should check/call to give him another oppurtunity to bluff you.
01-19-2008 , 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerdemic
This is a play that showed up in a DJ sensei video, and he called it a stop and go. But if I put that I would get a whole bunch of posts about how I am not Dj sensei.
DJ is wrong then. You are calling a raise, then planning on pushing with a midpair (regardless of whether or not an ace hits)? Expecting to get called by what worse?
01-19-2008 , 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
DJ is wrong then. You are calling a raise, then planning on pushing with a midpair (regardless of whether or not an ace hits)? Expecting to get called by what worse?
i doubt he's expecting to get called by worse...
01-19-2008 , 01:55 AM
If u think he is full of **** just shove the flop. U are ahead of a random hand and fd's. Against a semi-normal player's range you are totally crushed on the flop, but if you decide you are ahead just push the flop IMO. There's a ton of very bad turn cards for u, especially since you have no clue which one of them help the villain's hand.

As played you could bet 35ish and fold to a shove (he's not bluffing again probably?). That ace might actually make him fold Qx or TT/JJ.

In any case I don't like your flop call OOP at all unless under very special circumstances... I'd just let him have this one and wait for some hand where you hit TP or better and then let him stack himself for u.
01-19-2008 , 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerdemic
This is a play that showed up in a DJ sensei video, and he called it a stop and go. But if I put that I would get a whole bunch of posts about how I am not Dj sensei.


The point of me playing a single table all night was to work on my reads. And the range of hands I have him on that makes this a good flop call is air. As I said in the original post, he did this a number of times with air.
fine, jumping over the fact that he did this a number of times with air (the flop call still isn't good btw), he's not calling your bet with worse, so leading is dumb
01-19-2008 , 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Twister
i doubt he's expecting to get called by worse...
so he hates money????
01-19-2008 , 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
so he hates money????
pretty much, yeah
01-19-2008 , 02:00 AM
imo this is nothing more than an OOP, premature float.

op, im sure that for every 1 minute dj spent on moves like this, he must have spent 10 on the importance of position.
01-19-2008 , 02:03 AM
I wasn't expecting to get called by worse, I was expecting to take the pot down.
01-19-2008 , 02:05 AM
it is still a stop n go, they call it that in LHE all the time when you call from BB for example to defend then donk the flop
01-19-2008 , 02:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokerdemic
I wasn't expecting to get called by worse, I was expecting to take the pot down.
ok, so were you expecting a better hand to fold?
01-19-2008 , 02:12 AM
how do you get folded to cbet stats?
01-19-2008 , 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago Twister
ok, so were you expecting a better hand to fold?
I thought my hand was best, so I wasn't trying to fold out better hands as much as I was trying to protect my own. I guess that would make it a value bluff? This is why the A sucks, and back to my original question because if he was raising the flop with air, random AX hands just hit.

      
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