Hi! Just starting to learn NL cash games. Im pretty decent at small stakes limit as well as NL tournament, but a little clueless for NL cash.

2/3 blind structure, 100 max buy in, Im sitting on about 100 dollars.

Hero: Q 9 (clubs) on the button

one limper, Fish raises UTG+2 to $10, 2 callers, I elect to call on the button (thoughts?), one of the blinds call, like 5-6 to the flop.

My thoughts: I've seen fish open raise UTG+2 with 78 offsuit, and on the same hand, call a 40 dollar bet on a board of AQQ4 with no draw (well, except to a pair of 7's or 8's....???), AND THEN, call a 60 dollar bet on the river of AQQ44, to chop the pot (other guy was betting his flush draw). Fish will call allins on the flop with any pair, and with some high cards.

Anyhow....

FLOP: Q 7 2 (two clubs)

Fish bets $10 or $15, loose passive calls, I push all-in. Thoughts? Would like comments on preflop and postflop play!

My thoughts: Im not familiar with what hands I should be calling raises with in NL cash. I understand my implied odds are horrible, seeing how i only have 100 dollars (33bb). Yet, i felt it improved given so many other horrible players in the game. I also have position, and I felt I might have something like 5:1 calling preflop (is this enough?). Flop, I felt i was shoving for value, (and maybe some FE; maybe i'll get qj or q10 to fold). Thoughts?

Your call preflop on the button with how many players in is certainly standard in NL. You were getting 3-1 which is plenty odds to play q9 on the button. When you flop top pair with a flush draw, that's a very very good flop for NL. I agree with you shoving here. Your FE all depends on how much two villains have. Most likely if you are called your flush draw is likely best if you hit. With redraw to flush it's a shove, if no flush draw i would simply just call and play position. Only difference in NL is you can price out draws and have to play better pot control.

Such a low buy-in structure will make your results a lot more swingy than if you were in a properly deep (100bb+) game. The game may in fact be softer and decisions more simplistic, but suckouts will happen and play a bigger factor, and ultimately variance will be higher in so shallow a game.

It's true that you want to play in position against bad players, and it's true that you can play much looser on the button than in early position... but it's typically a very bad idea to be calling raises liberally with easily dominated (outkicked) hands. Q9s does play better multiway than heads up, but because the game structure is so shallow, you don't have as much implied odds to win the deep money behind in stacks to make this a profitable call preflop.

This is completely fine for your hand strength and the stack sizes involved. You have top pair and 9 outs for a good flush, which means you'll have good chances to win improved or unimproved. The only way you're in trouble is if someone has a better flush draw and someone else has a better hand than you now, and having both of those are unlikely. It's also better for you to be making the bet for stacks rather than calling the bet for stacks, so you can feel good about your pot equity here against most holdings.

Well said tj. The main thing to take from his comment is about RAISING all-in not calling as much.

With this structure you should be playing very tight preflop and looking to play premium hands for a raise or re-raise. Then on the flop when you hit your TPGK or overpair get all the money in against your bad opponents who are giving you action with whatever trash they have, not having noticed you play a hand an hour. That's about all there is to crushing this game with 30bbs. It plays quite like limit poker actually but is easier. NL cash only gets interesting when you have closer to 100bbs or more.

Preflop is lol. No, you should not be calling here with your stack-size with Q-hi, hoping to fit or fold the flop. Half the time you hit you'll be dominated anyways.

Just wait for the big hands and pwn. And try not to kill yourself out of boredom. Short-stacked NL is the worst kind of game imo.

So I have a naysayer on the preflop call...what's the minimum people are calling with in this spot? qj suited? qk suited?

Btw, fish had 24 of diamonds, and elected to call my all-in. MP calls all in, with A8 of clubs. i lose to a 2 on the river. Given this information, how does this change our preflop decision for future hands?

That blind structure would make the stack sizes similar to the middle-late stages of a tournament. You say that you're a NL tourney player - so I'd apply those PF standards rather than adopt a usual 100bb NL Cash strategy.

In the mentioned hand, I'd never call off 10% of my stack with Q9.

If the game plays like this loose-passive short-stacks I'd think that they optimal strategy would be to adopt a push-botting style after limpers with AQ, AJ, 88 + type hands.

With this blind structure you shouldn't be calling with anything but maybe 22-66 to set mine. Set mining should be done were sparingly with so shallow stacks. The only reason you can set mine here is because you have cold callers. Push all-in with 77+ and AQ+ (maybe AJ or KQ depending on the raiser). Fold everything else.

yea, but the difference between cash games and tourney, is that i still have 800 dollars to buy in with in my wallet I think the question is whether 3:1 immediate odds is enough to call with q9 suited here; i'd call this in a heart beat at a limit table, but im not sure what adjustments im supposed to make at a nl, small max buy in table. Yes, I imagine some pot control and judgment calls are in order when the flop is something like q 2 2, or 954; i can call, raise, or fold, depending on my view of villain or whatnot. I just feel I want to get involved at least somewhat more against such unbelievably horrible fish; in hindsight, when i get a guy calling 80 dollars with bottom pair no redraw for a pot of maybe 60, and an overcaller with an ace high flush draw, is this not good enough reason to play more?

i would allways beware if you see 2 players play badly against eacht other you never know if its just a set up and if they dont know each other even if they dont live in the same country i know its sound paranoid but it never costs being aware of it if you want to test him you can but never believe in what you see against someone else only believe what you know from your play against him

yes you are so right but dont tell him were do i get now my money from lol

The amount of money in your wallet does not matter because it is not in play. What matters in this hand is how much money you have on the table and how much your opponents have relative to the blinds. Q9s needs good implied odds to call with. Calling off 10% of your stack preflop with this hand is just horrible. The only thing you can hope for is to hit in some way and get it in on the flop, but that won't happen often enough for it to be worth it.

i understand the whole implied odds argument. So what is the minimum ppl are calling with here once i give you the info that these players will likely call an all-in bet with any pair on the flop, any draw, and even sometimes with no pair (so drawing to a pair). Also, what is the minimum i need in my stack in ratio to the blinds where i can start calling in this spot.

Also, if the pot were unraised, is limping this hand ok? What is the minimum we would limp with here?

Since you are a NL tourney player, just play as if it was a tourney far from the money and you had an M of 20.

I'm assuming this is a live game. These live 100nl games are so so soft. Considering your stack size, I would just push on the flop and expect everyone to fold. I really don't think anyone else has a hand. It looks a lot to me like a weak cbet by villian and weak calls behind.

And if by the unlikely chance your hand is beat you got the flush draw.