Works for me, I was hoping for a RP/GJ ticket

I guarantee they will have a record that's in the top 4. We don't need to bet money on it, but let me know if you want to bet pride on it.

WI/OSU/Michigan/Neb > rest

btw I decided to start trusting my girlfriend

lol voting

It's fine to not vote. But if you don't I don't think you should have the right to bitch about things your government does that could have been altered by voting.

Nothing my government does can be altered by my voting because the marginal difference that casting my vote makes is zero in almost every situation. It's only if I live somewhere that the outcome may be close that my vote becomes worthwhile.

Therefore it's probably more effective for me to donate money to a campaign (ergo my vote isn't worth as much as someone richer) or to volunteer for a campaign (and hide the fact that I don't think one person's vote is worth anything but instead of try to influence many people at once, which is strangely similar to my current job).

I'm quite interested in the latter. Generally for causes that increase the utility of each vote - e.g, proportional representation, which unfortunately is pretty much dead in the UK for the next generation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1846521.html

IMO

That's nothing then. Lol voting stands.

This. MSU is in the same tier as PSU and Iowa.

This is ******ed thinking. If everybody takes the same mindset that an individual vote doesn't matter then nobody votes and the desire of the majority isn't represented in the decisions of policy-makers.

Obviously people will argue that our government is corrupt, that every politician is corrupt, and that it doesn't really matter who gets elected. If that's your standpoint then fine. But to say that you don't vote because "one vote doesn't matter" is really missing the big picture imo. If everyone with your same beliefs/views doesn't vote then how will people with your beliefs ever have their interests represented in government?

If your hypothetical was remotely reasonable, you'd have a point. Since it isn't, and your statement earlier was 'people who don't vote can't complain about things they could have changed', your argument is still completely bunk.

IF you really want to change things, organizing/donating/volunteering is the only way to go. Simply voting does next to nothing.

Ive taken it a step further and I stopped giving a **** about the government.

I feel the effort/time put into worrying/changing government matters can be better put into making your own life better

Why do you think that me voting will make everyone else with my beliefs vote?

My one vote has zero marginal utility except in very rare circumstances. Obviously it's bad if everyone thinks this. It makes zero difference if I think this.

You just blew my mind.

Not sure what hypothetical you're referring to.

Regarding your second paragraph. I agree that it's more effective to organize/donate/volunteer than to cast a single vote...but why not do both?

I suppose really the point I wanted to get across is that people who DON"T vote OR organize/volunteer/volunteer/do anything to try and make what they see is a positive change, but still love to bitch about how bad the government are the people that piss me off.

If you can't grasp the ridiculousness of this statement then I don't know what else to tell you.

Yeah, I agree with shpanko. If you are not voting you don't have much room to bitch. Even if you are volunteering, organizing, spreading a message, w/e. That to me is telling other people they should be doing something that you yourself aren't doing. Voting for the majority of people is such a simplistic thing and takes less than 30 minutes. We were lucky enough to be born into a country where voting can take place, exercise that. It's obviously very silly to think an individual vote will change anything, I agree with that completely, so convince a friend to vote. Convince a friend to convince a friend to vote. Spread a message, start a grass root movement, do something, or shut the **** up about how your government sucks.

You're used to thinking like a doctor but not like an economist

Vote in local elections where your vote obviously matters. Notice that they happen at the same time as national elections. Vote in national elections because you're already there.

I have voted before but I generally don't. tbh I'm always pretty surprised when super smart people (like many ITT) argue that an individual not voting is bad.

I really don't see why you think this is ridiculous, shpanko. I can't think of any reasons why it's not true.

By the way I don't think I've said anywhere that I don't vote. I just acknowledge the futility of it and don't think that voting is actually taking part in solving the country's problems.

CHICAGOOOO MAYNE.

Everything was decided in the dem primary.

I just don't understand how you can donate to a campaign, and not vote for the candidate. Or how you can volunteer for a campaign, and not vote for the candidate. Or tell your friends that candidate a is the bomb diggity, and then not vote for him. We have the power to make a difference, no matter how unlikely it is. It doesn't cost much for us either.

In 99.9% of elections the chances that one vote will make a difference are literally zero. That costs you time to use your zero percent shot.