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Old 01-08-2009, 04:35 PM   #51
Claunchy
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Re: I folded KK preflop

One time I folded AA preflop to a guy w/ a 0.00001 3b% over a 100k sample. We were 600BBs deep too fwiw. Pretty sure it was a good fold.
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Old 01-08-2009, 04:44 PM   #52
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Ive never seen house (might have to download), just finished all seasons of arrested development, sick, sick show.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:01 PM   #53
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Do we nbot have a 4bet RANGE stat?
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:22 PM   #54
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Can we put a sticky up that has a reference to whether or not KK should be folded pre for 100bbs? Look at that before you post.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:45 PM   #55
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nachteule View Post
4bet% is % where villain had the chance to 4bet and actually did, so it comes down to the % of his opening range that he 4bets over a 3bet. So his range is pretty damn tight (about 0.3% or so). But that doesn't mean he 4bets the best hands of his opening range.....
Over 7k hands this sample size is going to be....what....200 hands?

HUGE sample.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:50 PM   #56
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Re: I folded KK preflop

im just curious to what you guys have to say about this..... i know op is going to love it.....

sorry there isnt really a correct link to the article. if you want to read the full article. its on http://www.cardplayer.com/pro

go to articles, dani stern "ansky" how to be a winner at high stakes

A few months ago, I made a fold with two kings preflop, that I think most players would say was very non-standard. I was playing live 5/10 at Turning Stone, and I had about 780 in my stack (I recently lost a pot and hadn’t reloaded). A very tight online player opened under the gun for 40. The table was 7 or 8 handed, and the player 2 to the left of the UTG player reraised to 110. I thought about either pushing or flat calling, and opted to flat call, because I thought there was a good chance they would be able to fold hands as good as QQ and AK there if I shoved. It was folded back to the under the gun player who reraised to 400 straight. The utg+2 player thought for roughly 15 seconds before folding, and it was back to me. At first, I almost instantly shoved my stack in, before I stopped to think. Effective stacks from my perspective were 78 big blinds, but both UTG and UTG+2 both had over 2500. This means that while I am playing only 78bb effective, the real decision should be made keeping in mind the 2 other players’ stacks, and how they would play 250bb deep. I thought for roughly 5 minutes, before realizing that UTG really had a range of KK+, and very rarely would make this play with anything worse. Why? Think about it. UTG+2 showed a LOT of strength by reraising an under the gun raise, and followed by my flat call for almost 15% of my stack, there is just no way he is making a move, so we can remove all semi bluffy hands. Can he have QQ or AK? Almost always the answer will be no. What hands can he expect to get value from if he repops those hands? He knows both me and UTG+2 will be folding EVERY worse hand, there is just no way we are sticking it in with JJ or AQ there. I folded the kings face up and the player was kind enough to show two aces.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:54 PM   #57
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Re: I folded KK preflop

OP, consult this before you consider making a sick laydown with KK pre again...

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Old 01-08-2009, 05:55 PM   #58
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbo-san View Post
Over 7k hands this sample size is going to be....what....200 hands?

HUGE sample.
i cant decide how big of a sample this is,
2 choices for you:

|------------this big----------|

OR

|-------------------this big----------------|
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:58 PM   #59
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Re: I folded KK preflop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bW6USsmR70
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:58 PM   #60
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Re: I folded KK preflop

I want to hear some stories from Kil.
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Old 01-08-2009, 05:59 PM   #61
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Re: I folded KK preflop

PHIL HELLMUTH INSTA SHOVE ALL DAY HERE WITH 100BB......
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:22 PM   #62
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Re: I folded KK preflop

OP, don't 3-bet if you're not willing to get it in. If you're that worried about getting AI with KK here then just flat the initial raise.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:32 PM   #63
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Why is this not locked? OP is insane for folding; maybe I'm misreading, but I see no reason to fold whatsoever.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:35 PM   #64
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claunchy View Post
One time I folded AA preflop to a guy w/ a 0.00001 3b% over a 100k sample. We were 600BBs deep too fwiw. Pretty sure it was a good fold.
Yeah he must have had two jokers there, good fold.
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Old 01-08-2009, 06:37 PM   #65
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJoker View Post
Yeah he must have had two jokers there, good fold.
Actually he had three aces preflop.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:13 PM   #66
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubaloo View Post
Ive never seen house (might have to download), just finished all seasons of arrested development, sick, sick show.
dude, do it. best show.

basically the only tv i watch is 30 rock, house. the office is good too but im kinda sick of the whole jim/pam thing. like, cmon let's move along please.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:16 PM   #67
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClutchCity View Post
Why is this not locked? OP is insane for folding; maybe I'm misreading, but I see no reason to fold whatsoever.
How the f is this 5 pages, ppl misclick ai too sometimes regardless of stats.
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Old 01-08-2009, 07:24 PM   #68
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Re: I folded KK preflop

pfft.

Tommy Angelo folded Aces man. OP is nearly on that level.
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Old 01-08-2009, 08:51 PM   #69
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by grac View Post
How the f is this 5 pages, ppl misclick ai too sometimes regardless of stats.
It's not, it's one page. You just need to change your settings.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:39 PM   #70
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Re: I folded KK preflop

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Originally Posted by RedJoker View Post
It's not, it's one page. You just need to change your settings.
Shouldn't even be one page imo.
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:44 PM   #71
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Flat pre and outplay him with position!
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Old 01-08-2009, 09:44 PM   #72
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Re: I folded KK preflop

I'd fold all day. *hides*
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:06 PM   #73
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Re: I folded KK preflop

My roommate has 1k on oklahoma straight up.
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Old 01-08-2009, 10:15 PM   #74
bubaloo
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Re: I folded KK preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by newera725 View Post
im just curious to what you guys have to say about this..... i know op is going to love it.....

sorry there isnt really a correct link to the article. if you want to read the full article. its on http://www.cardplayer.com/pro

go to articles, dani stern "ansky" how to be a winner at high stakes

A few months ago, I made a fold with two kings preflop, that I think most players would say was very non-standard. I was playing live 5/10 at Turning Stone, and I had about 780 in my stack (I recently lost a pot and hadn’t reloaded). A very tight online player opened under the gun for 40. The table was 7 or 8 handed, and the player 2 to the left of the UTG player reraised to 110. I thought about either pushing or flat calling, and opted to flat call, because I thought there was a good chance they would be able to fold hands as good as QQ and AK there if I shoved. It was folded back to the under the gun player who reraised to 400 straight. The utg+2 player thought for roughly 15 seconds before folding, and it was back to me. At first, I almost instantly shoved my stack in, before I stopped to think. Effective stacks from my perspective were 78 big blinds, but both UTG and UTG+2 both had over 2500. This means that while I am playing only 78bb effective, the real decision should be made keeping in mind the 2 other players’ stacks, and how they would play 250bb deep. I thought for roughly 5 minutes, before realizing that UTG really had a range of KK+, and very rarely would make this play with anything worse. Why? Think about it. UTG+2 showed a LOT of strength by reraising an under the gun raise, and followed by my flat call for almost 15% of my stack, there is just no way he is making a move, so we can remove all semi bluffy hands. Can he have QQ or AK? Almost always the answer will be no. What hands can he expect to get value from if he repops those hands? He knows both me and UTG+2 will be folding EVERY worse hand, there is just no way we are sticking it in with JJ or AQ there. I folded the kings face up and the player was kind enough to show two aces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by absoludicrous View Post
OP, consult this before you consider making a sick laydown with KK pre again...

This is all you ever nneeed to know.

edit: i dint readthe first qupte, so what ever, the 2nd quote is quote enogth.
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Old 01-09-2009, 12:19 AM   #75
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Re: I folded KK preflop

I would fold here if my wireless mouse ran out of batteries/my internet would get disconnected fast enough for me not to be able to call.

OP, your screenname is kind of lame but not as lame as this thread.
 

 
      

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