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help me not be so confused help me not be so confused

07-03-2008 , 06:09 PM
complete unknown.

Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $237.60
CO: $83.60
Hero (BTN): $439.00
SB: $306.00
BB: $556.30
UTG: $206.35

Pre Flop: Hero is BTN with Q Q
3 folds, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, BB calls $4

Flop: ($13.00) T Q J (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $10, BB raises to $34, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($81.00) 6 (2 players)
BB bets $64, Hero calls $64

River: ($209.00) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $452.30 all in, Hero needs to phone a friend

Last edited by OSUGreg1983; 07-03-2008 at 06:15 PM.
07-03-2008 , 06:12 PM
i really hate spots like that and i dont know what to do either

hope this helps.
07-03-2008 , 06:14 PM
call, don't think i could fold top set here, even 200bb deep

AK and K9 are unlikely (altho villain may flat AK this deep?), only 98s beats you, you played the hand super passively so it's an even easier call. JJ and TT are very likely here too.
07-03-2008 , 06:15 PM
played perfect if you fold river.
07-03-2008 , 06:18 PM
Meh, I might call just because unknowns with deep stacks are usually super apes. I dunno about it being a snap-anything though.
07-03-2008 , 06:18 PM
Tough spot as played. I probably call because you've so underrepped your hand. AK is unlikely, so its 98 or K9 you're behind and ahead of TT, JT, QJ, QT (66 if he is a donk). And considering this is a blind steal situation.

With it being a blind steal situation, I don't see how the flop is not a reraise. Even if not, turn has got to be a raise. If either of these were done, river (or turn) essentially plays itself out given stack sizes...
07-03-2008 , 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claunchy
Meh, I might call just because unknowns with deep stacks are usually super apes. I dunno about it being a snap-anything though.
yea i edited the snap part out

to those that think i played it too passively, i dont think a better hand's calling a re-raise on the flop (i mean yea other sets and two pairs, but they have one pair here ALOT and will kick it when i re-pop always) and the turn i suppose i could jam to make the flush draw pay...but then again if i was going to raise at any point i think it would have to be on the flop
07-03-2008 , 06:33 PM
surely this is going to be sets and 2 pair enough (+ as others have said, pf makes straights unlikely)
07-03-2008 , 06:38 PM
I think you mean you don't think a worse hand will call a reraise on the flop. I would agree under certain circumstances (i.e. dry flop etc) but not in this case because:

1) it is a blind steal situation so ranges are generally wider

2) because of the coordination of this flop, there are: a) lot of 2 pair hand possibilities that prob aren't folding to a flop reraise and b) even with your example of one pair hands, the reasonable one pair hands would have a lot of potential. i.e. pair plus OESD like KQ, KT, KJ - these hands are prob not folding either.

I didn't include KQ/KT/KJ type hands in the original analysis as played because by the way the hand played out by the river, these are very very unlikely. But, hindsight is 20/20, at the FLOP, these are definitely in his range and you should play (read: raise) accordingly...


Quote:
Originally Posted by OSUGreg1983
yea i edited the snap part out

to those that think i played it too passively, i dont think a better hand's calling a re-raise on the flop (i mean yea other sets and two pairs, but they have one pair here ALOT and will kick it when i re-pop always) and the turn i suppose i could jam to make the flush draw pay...but then again if i was going to raise at any point i think it would have to be on the flop
07-03-2008 , 06:45 PM
minraises and huge overshoves are always the nuts afaik. i like a fold.
07-03-2008 , 06:51 PM
I'd 3-bet the flop and happily get stacks in
07-03-2008 , 07:04 PM
220bb deep you're going to run into a ton of straights if you get it in on the flop.
07-03-2008 , 07:08 PM
I think we have his stacking off range crushed tbh
07-03-2008 , 07:17 PM
timeout, ftw
07-03-2008 , 07:27 PM
noone shoves 2 pair on the river. that would be a sicko bluff.
07-03-2008 , 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by axioma
played perfect if you fold river.
+1

AK is clearly in your range, unless villain is a complete idiot I can't see him shoving less than the nuts.
07-03-2008 , 07:34 PM
Shove the turn man, as played call
07-03-2008 , 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampiro
+1

AK is clearly in your range, unless villain is a complete idiot I can't see him shoving less than the nuts.
no, ak will check flop or fold turn a ton.
07-03-2008 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Check_The_Nuts
ak will check flop
I see, u like checking the nuts...
07-03-2008 , 08:00 PM
Against an unknown I don't think this is two pair (or worse) almost ever. Which obviously makes it a fold as there are way more straight combos than sets.


As far as a flop raise I'm a little torn, but I'm leaning towards a 3bet. I agree villain has a lot of one pair hands, but of them I think a lot have gutshots/open enders which aren't folding to a 3bet. Ya his stacking off range is probably sets+straights, but you still have a lot of equity against that kind of range so I don't mind getting it in.
07-03-2008 , 08:05 PM
Def Stacking off on this flop - Our hand looks SO much like KQ / KJ or two pair. Villain could easily have an underset or random bluff. As played this is a call
07-03-2008 , 09:43 PM
WTF

call
07-03-2008 , 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdom88
WTF

call
this WTF
07-03-2008 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdom88
WTF

call
Not sure why villain can't have set/2pr here a solid portion of the time.
07-04-2008 , 12:48 AM
I think river is really really close, I don't see why he'd shove two pair here and putting sets in his range after preflop action seems generous (and if we do AK should be in his range as well). So yeah I think it's a fold.

I agree with 3-betting the flop and getting it in.

      
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