Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Small Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding small stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (50c-1 to 1-2) Forum is closed; read only.

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2017, 01:57 PM   #1
HulmeArch
newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 46
Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

IPoker No-Limit Hold'em, £0.50 BB (5 handed) - Converted at http://handhistoryconverter.com/

BB (£167.23)
UTG (£55.89)
MP (£55.33)
Button (£50)
Hero (SB) (£60.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A
2 folds, Button raises £1.50, Hero raises £4.25, BB calls £4, Button calls £3

Flop: (£13.50) 10, K, 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets £8, 1 fold, Hero raises £25, BB raises £154.73 (All-In), Hero calls £31.45 (All-In)
HulmeArch is offline  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:41 PM   #2
recondite7
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 1,859
Re: Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

Weird line for the BB to take. Unlikely he leads with a set and i'm taking KK out of his pf range. King Ten is the only two pair hand I could see here and I doubt he's leading out with it most of the time.

I am ok getting in here, but I think calling and letting the BB bluff off on future streets is marginally better. His shove most likely represents a draw with decent equity, but we shouldn't fear it.
recondite7 is offline  
Old 05-19-2017, 04:56 PM   #3
Kurrency
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 52
Re: Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

I like calling and letting him keep going when we have the A of spades and the checkraise when we don't. So at this point, with almost half ur stack in and so few hands that make sense and are beating u on his part, I think it's a call. Like previous post, we r only worried about KT or a set and there are plenty more draws that can take this line.

Other option would be to cbet flop but then we face a tougher decision if we get raised, so I like ur line better.

In summary, I think his combos that beat u are pretty balanced or even outnumbered by his draws, so I'd have no prob getting it in here
Kurrency is offline  
Old 05-19-2017, 06:12 PM   #4
mucknuts
adept
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 783
Re: Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

Reallyyyy don't like going for the flop c/r three way! So much potential for lost value and probably too strong a line to take with our exact hand seeing as we'll really be limiting the action we'll get from worse hands. Just bet.
mucknuts is offline  
Old 05-19-2017, 07:16 PM   #5
just_grindin
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,260
Re: Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mucknuts View Post
Reallyyyy don't like going for the flop c/r three way! So much potential for lost value and probably too strong a line to take with our exact hand seeing as we'll really be limiting the action we'll get from worse hands. Just bet.
Yeah I wasn't a huge fan of the c/r either as I think you miss a lot of value and there's no guarantee villain will bet as wide as he will call.
just_grindin is offline  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:44 PM   #6
Kurrency
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 52
Re: Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

Just hypothetically, previous two posters, what would u do if u cbet flop and get shoved on? Not saying ur wrong or trying to challenge u, just trying to learn the game better.

The way I see it, if opponent has a draw like QJ or two spades, and we cbet flop, he won't have any fold equity because the K connects so hard w our 3b range, therefore he won't (or shouldn't) shove his draws, he would be better off just calling his draws, so if he shoves in that scenario he's repping more strength than TPTK. I would have a tough time calling off my stack with AK then.

On the other hand, the opponents actual line has more drawy potential in his range, so I would be more comfy getting it in there. If we check, he bets flop, we raise, he now either should shove or fold his draws.

What do u think?
Kurrency is offline  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:02 PM   #7
just_grindin
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,260
Re: Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrency View Post
Just hypothetically, previous two posters, what would u do if u cbet flop and get shoved on? Not saying ur wrong or trying to challenge u, just trying to learn the game better.

The way I see it, if opponent has a draw like QJ or two spades, and we cbet flop, he won't have any fold equity because the K connects so hard w our 3b range, therefore he won't (or shouldn't) shove his draws, he would be better off just calling his draws, so if he shoves in that scenario he's repping more strength than TPTK. I would have a tough time calling off my stack with AK then.

On the other hand, the opponents actual line has more drawy potential in his range, so I would be more comfy getting it in there. If we check, he bets flop, we raise, he now either should shove or fold his draws.

What do u think?
How often are you expecting to get shoved on in this spot when you cbet? I expect it's a very low frequency and that people who do it aren't balanced when they do.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk
just_grindin is offline  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:15 PM   #8
Kurrency
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 52
Re: Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

Yea it would probably be super rare. I was thinking in terms of avoiding getting put in a tough spot, but its probably rare enough to where getting the extra value from cbetting makes it the higher EV line. I see your point.
Kurrency is offline  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:25 PM   #9
just_grindin
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,260
Re: Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrency View Post
Yea it would probably be super rare. I was thinking in terms of avoiding getting put in a tough spot, but its probably rare enough to where getting the extra value from cbetting makes it the higher EV line. I see your point.
I missed the 3rd person in the pot originally so we can't cbet as wide as we might vs a single opponent but you also have some bluffs here that would be happy to cbet as opposed to c/r and taking a 3bet/check line preflop/flop here seems like you're unnecessarily dividing your range if you start trying to balance other lines.
just_grindin is offline  
Old 05-20-2017, 02:34 AM   #10
Kurrency
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 52
Re: Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

Quote:
Originally Posted by just_grindin View Post
you also have some bluffs here that would be happy to cbet as opposed to c/r and taking a 3bet/check line preflop/flop here seems like you're unnecessarily dividing your range if you start trying to balance other lines.
To me, this is an additional great reason to pick the cbet line over the c/r line.
Not only is it higher value, its more balanced as well.
Kurrency is offline  

 
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online