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Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move? Called flop 3bet shove with TPTK on drawy board. Right/wrong move?

05-19-2017 , 01:57 PM
IPoker No-Limit Hold'em, £0.50 BB (5 handed) - Converted at http://handhistoryconverter.com/

BB (£167.23)
UTG (£55.89)
MP (£55.33)
Button (£50)
Hero (SB) (£60.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, A
2 folds, Button raises £1.50, Hero raises £4.25, BB calls £4, Button calls £3

Flop: (£13.50) 10, K, 4 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets £8, 1 fold, Hero raises £25, BB raises £154.73 (All-In), Hero calls £31.45 (All-In)
05-19-2017 , 02:41 PM
Weird line for the BB to take. Unlikely he leads with a set and i'm taking KK out of his pf range. King Ten is the only two pair hand I could see here and I doubt he's leading out with it most of the time.

I am ok getting in here, but I think calling and letting the BB bluff off on future streets is marginally better. His shove most likely represents a draw with decent equity, but we shouldn't fear it.
05-19-2017 , 04:56 PM
I like calling and letting him keep going when we have the A of spades and the checkraise when we don't. So at this point, with almost half ur stack in and so few hands that make sense and are beating u on his part, I think it's a call. Like previous post, we r only worried about KT or a set and there are plenty more draws that can take this line.

Other option would be to cbet flop but then we face a tougher decision if we get raised, so I like ur line better.

In summary, I think his combos that beat u are pretty balanced or even outnumbered by his draws, so I'd have no prob getting it in here
05-19-2017 , 06:12 PM
Reallyyyy don't like going for the flop c/r three way! So much potential for lost value and probably too strong a line to take with our exact hand seeing as we'll really be limiting the action we'll get from worse hands. Just bet.
05-19-2017 , 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mucknuts
Reallyyyy don't like going for the flop c/r three way! So much potential for lost value and probably too strong a line to take with our exact hand seeing as we'll really be limiting the action we'll get from worse hands. Just bet.
Yeah I wasn't a huge fan of the c/r either as I think you miss a lot of value and there's no guarantee villain will bet as wide as he will call.
05-19-2017 , 08:44 PM
Just hypothetically, previous two posters, what would u do if u cbet flop and get shoved on? Not saying ur wrong or trying to challenge u, just trying to learn the game better.

The way I see it, if opponent has a draw like QJ or two spades, and we cbet flop, he won't have any fold equity because the K connects so hard w our 3b range, therefore he won't (or shouldn't) shove his draws, he would be better off just calling his draws, so if he shoves in that scenario he's repping more strength than TPTK. I would have a tough time calling off my stack with AK then.

On the other hand, the opponents actual line has more drawy potential in his range, so I would be more comfy getting it in there. If we check, he bets flop, we raise, he now either should shove or fold his draws.

What do u think?
05-19-2017 , 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrency
Just hypothetically, previous two posters, what would u do if u cbet flop and get shoved on? Not saying ur wrong or trying to challenge u, just trying to learn the game better.

The way I see it, if opponent has a draw like QJ or two spades, and we cbet flop, he won't have any fold equity because the K connects so hard w our 3b range, therefore he won't (or shouldn't) shove his draws, he would be better off just calling his draws, so if he shoves in that scenario he's repping more strength than TPTK. I would have a tough time calling off my stack with AK then.

On the other hand, the opponents actual line has more drawy potential in his range, so I would be more comfy getting it in there. If we check, he bets flop, we raise, he now either should shove or fold his draws.

What do u think?
How often are you expecting to get shoved on in this spot when you cbet? I expect it's a very low frequency and that people who do it aren't balanced when they do.

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05-19-2017 , 11:15 PM
Yea it would probably be super rare. I was thinking in terms of avoiding getting put in a tough spot, but its probably rare enough to where getting the extra value from cbetting makes it the higher EV line. I see your point.
05-19-2017 , 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrency
Yea it would probably be super rare. I was thinking in terms of avoiding getting put in a tough spot, but its probably rare enough to where getting the extra value from cbetting makes it the higher EV line. I see your point.
I missed the 3rd person in the pot originally so we can't cbet as wide as we might vs a single opponent but you also have some bluffs here that would be happy to cbet as opposed to c/r and taking a 3bet/check line preflop/flop here seems like you're unnecessarily dividing your range if you start trying to balance other lines.
05-20-2017 , 02:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_grindin
you also have some bluffs here that would be happy to cbet as opposed to c/r and taking a 3bet/check line preflop/flop here seems like you're unnecessarily dividing your range if you start trying to balance other lines.
To me, this is an additional great reason to pick the cbet line over the c/r line.
Not only is it higher value, its more balanced as well.

      
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