All-in EV - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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All-in EV

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10-26-2011 , 10:05 PM

useless

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 949

How much merit should I give this stat if the site I am on doesn't always show the hole cards at the end of the hand. IE if someone calls my bet on the river and is beat, his hand is not shown unless he chooses too. I assume the results are obviously going to be skewed but by how much?

10-27-2011 , 12:25 AM

Lifeisagrind

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,524

huh? AIEV has to do with ur EV when there are still cards to come on either the flop turn or river. there aren't any more cards to come on the river so AI EV doesn't apply

10-27-2011 , 12:27 AM

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Mucked cards are always available in your hand histories if you were sitting at the table. They are only hidden from observers. Replay the hand and you'll see them.

But as pointed out above, your example (bet on the river) is invalid and doesn't count at all for all-in EV stats.

10-27-2011 , 12:28 AM

Keyser.

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 11,710

^ not true at some sites. Crazy, I know.

10-27-2011 , 12:39 AM

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyser.

^ not true at some sites. Crazy, I know.

I know Stars allows mucking after losing an all-in, but the cards are in the hand history if you were seated. If there is a site that actually has no feature to show mucked cards (IWTSTH) after an all-in, that violates the rules of poker and people should complain loudly. I can't even imagine a logical rationale for such a policy.

10-27-2011 , 01:13 AM

Keyser.

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 11,710

All I know is I've sweated people before who complained that on their site you can't see mucked hands, and I was skeptical but it was true -- they're not in the HH or anywhere else. IIRC it's like that on this small Sweden only network and I think it's true at some other smaller Euro sites.

10-27-2011 , 01:19 AM

useless

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 949

Yer mine doesn't show. So if I shove on the flop or turn and win and the other guys hand doesn't' get shown. It doesn't effect the effect stat at all?

10-27-2011 , 03:36 AM

mousepower

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 90

The whole stat overall is useless..

10-27-2011 , 03:47 AM

BuddhaMonk187

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,475

yes for example on boss they dont even put the hand in the hand history when you won.. So you will run a lot under EV.

10-27-2011 , 04:50 AM

#10

neok

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 6,799

Yes, this is true on Boss. Mucked hands aren't shown, end of story. This makes you all-in EV very unreliable and makes it seem like you run a ton under EV.

10-27-2011 , 06:14 AM

#11

Nirwanda

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,699

The whole stat overall is useless..

That's pretty darn ignorant.

EV >>> Raw $ if you want to become a winner, pretty logical.

10-27-2011 , 08:09 AM

#12

spadebidder

Actually Shows Proof

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Yer mine doesn't show. So if I shove on the flop or turn and win and the other guys hand doesn't' get shown. It doesn't effect the effect stat at all?

That has the effect of not counting some hands you won but counting all the ones you lost, making the stat useless as pointed out.

What I was referring to that doesn't affect the stat is hands that are not all-in before the river.

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