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AA in 4bet pot AA in 4bet pot

11-07-2014 , 04:10 PM
Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $83.80 (167.6 bb)
Hero (BB): $62.17 (124.3 bb)
UTG: $43.06 (86.1 bb)
MP: $33.26 (66.5 bb)
CO: $76.74 (153.5 bb)
BTN: $37.92 (75.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Ad Ah
3 folds, BTN raises to $1.50, SB raises to $4, Hero raises to $10, BTN calls $8.50, SB calls $6

Flop: ($30) 9d Tc 4h (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $11, BTN raises to $22, SB raises to $73.80 and is all-in, Hero

Btn is whalish, SB is 22/17, 3bet SB 7%
11-07-2014 , 04:19 PM
meh. not folding. if he put in 10 dollars pre w/TT/99, I'm just going to call it a win instead of a loss here after losing to him.
11-07-2014 , 04:24 PM
I feel like he could have jj here and possibly even qq, though less likely. Obviously 99 and TT is possible but I think you're getting a pretty good price to call. Hate calling but I think I do it.
11-07-2014 , 05:27 PM
You never want more than 1 person involved when you have AA or KK, raise much bigger preflop. If someone has a big pair, that player will call, if he has nothing he will fold to any raise anyway.
11-07-2014 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Clinton
You never want more than 1 person involved when you have AA or KK, raise much bigger preflop. If someone has a big pair, that player will call, if he has nothing he will fold to any raise anyway.
ty next time I jam pre


I doubt many people do that with QQ/JJ, even though it makes kind of sense I guess.


It's just weird, the reg should never bluff here, given the fish has only 5€ left, and for value it doesnt make that much sense either I think. What kind of hands would you expect to see here other then 99/TT?
11-07-2014 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Clinton
You never want more than 1 person involved when you have AA or KK, raise much bigger preflop. If someone has a big pair, that player will call, if he has nothing he will fold to any raise anyway.
This is ridiculous. Besides maybe some contrived scenario with an unrealistic number of players and someone else holding AA, AA will have more equity then 1/the number of players in the pot. You'll win less often but you'll be more than compensated by the larger pot.
11-07-2014 , 08:17 PM
honestly this is like always 99/1010. he cold 3b jammed 110 bb into 2 people. he'd be 3betting those hands vs the whale a lot of the time pre too. fold and feel good op
11-07-2014 , 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_grindin
This is ridiculous. Besides maybe some contrived scenario with an unrealistic number of players and someone else holding AA, AA will have more equity then 1/the number of players in the pot. You'll win less often but you'll be more than compensated by the larger pot.
This is like super basic NL holdem fundamentals, with top pair hands you want to play heads-up, with drawing hands you want to play mulitway. How do you not know the basic fundamentals? This is not a complicated game, I see people use all kind of terms they can't even spell, holdem is a simple game with very easy fundamentals to learn.
11-07-2014 , 09:09 PM
haha that has to be a level...
11-07-2014 , 09:34 PM
Buddy your 4bet sizing is terrible, making it to $10 is a beginners mistake.

It's funny that you think this hand is about your decision on the river, on the river it's a fold 100% of the time.

This hand is not about the river decision, it's about your sizing pre-flop with AA.
11-07-2014 , 09:48 PM
whale wont fold and youll always see his hand, this is never JJ or QQ, just thank him for playing his hand like that
11-07-2014 , 09:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Clinton
This is like super basic NL holdem fundamentals, with top pair hands you want to play heads-up, with drawing hands you want to play mulitway. How do you not know the basic fundamentals? This is not a complicated game, I see people use all kind of terms they can't even spell, holdem is a simple game with very easy fundamentals to learn.
Seriously just take an equity calculator and fix one player's hand at AA and put ranges in for however many players you want. AA will have more than 1/n equity in the pot and significantly more at that (strictly speaking preflop here) it wins much more often then my investment in the pot. Just because I win less often doesn't mean I'm not compensated by the extra money going in....
11-07-2014 , 10:17 PM
would be funny if SB had QQ
11-07-2014 , 11:23 PM
I was gonna say that pre looks a bit big and $9 is preferred (as it accomplishes the same thing and saves you some $$$ the times you're bluffing), but then I saw you're a tad deep so it's fine.
11-08-2014 , 07:08 AM
Preflop size looks fine to me given that if sb is 3 betting light we want him to peel more pre. But the flop cb size is too small which make things a bit awkward, as played I would find a fold.
11-08-2014 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Clinton
Buddy your 4bet sizing is terrible, making it to $10 is a beginners mistake.

It's funny that you think this hand is about your decision on the river, on the river it's a fold 100% of the time.

This hand is not about the river decision, it's about your sizing pre-flop with AA.
Quick question, can you beat 50NL Stars?
11-09-2014 , 06:20 AM
Unless I think there is extreme psyichoticness going on, I fold and feel pretty good about it.
11-09-2014 , 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_grindin
Seriously just take an equity calculator and fix one player's hand at AA and put ranges in for however many players you want. AA will have more than 1/n equity in the pot and significantly more at that (strictly speaking preflop here) it wins much more often then my investment in the pot. Just because I win less often doesn't mean I'm not compensated by the extra money going in....
Bill is right. What you're saying is true but equity calculations aren't of much relevance here unless it all goes in before the flop. For example, you're not going to be able to stack multiple players with an overpair on the flop.
11-09-2014 , 09:19 AM
sb's plan is prolly to hit something >AA and stack off or fold everything else
11-09-2014 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nahh12
Bill is right. What you're saying is true but equity calculations aren't of much relevance here unless it all goes in before the flop. For example, you're not going to be able to stack multiple players with an overpair on the flop.
Yes there are more streets of betting and with a higher spr yes it makes it difficult to capture all of that ev from villain's preflop mistakes but that doesn't mean we don't ever benefit from the betting that happens postflop. Seriously when you have AA you should never want people to fold it's as simple as that.
11-09-2014 , 12:15 PM
i think i will fold here,because it seems like a set.
11-10-2014 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_grindin
Yes there are more streets of betting and with a higher spr yes it makes it difficult to capture all of that ev from villain's preflop mistakes but that doesn't mean we don't ever benefit from the betting that happens postflop. Seriously when you have AA you should never want people to fold it's as simple as that.
Use your common sense, not everything boils down to an equity calculation.

5 limpers, you make it 6x with AK. are you crushing all their ranges? yes. do you want them all to call? no.
11-10-2014 , 11:04 AM
I do not play PS and do not know who Walish is which would make a difference to me in this hand. SB looks like QQ+ looking for a safe flop to XR AI on because he wants to put you on AK (naturally because that is the hand he can beat!!). Maybe QJ jamming the OESD but his 3B% is not that wide (perhaps if you examine only SB 3B%) so not likely. If SB flops a set why is he pushing your hand out? If SB has set he is going to flat. Perhaps he feels that he can guarantee BN calls and that is good enough.

I am not concerned about SB. I am concerned about BN, he looks like he has a set!! I do not see BN cold calling 4B w QJ and then mR a draw. If he could have QJ then he can have 9T, but I do not think this is his range personally. There is no FD. I can see him cold calling 99-TT. 44 maybe but unlikely. He is not bluffing w mR, so what is he value raising?

Fold.

I have been stacked here enough!! lol.


Like I said though, I do not know Walish, perhaps he is the biggest fish at your stakes. In that case, get it in!


Quote:
Originally Posted by .isolated
meh. not folding. if he put in 10 dollars pre w/TT/99, I'm just going to call it a win instead of a loss here after losing to him.
SB C 12BB to make >100BB vs two opponents. I am not folding 99-TT there. BB can have AK, QQ+, and bluffs. I can hit or bluff post.
11-10-2014 , 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nahh12
Use your common sense, not everything boils down to an equity calculation.

5 limpers, you make it 6x with AK. are you crushing all their ranges? yes. do you want them all to call? no.
Of course I do? Again you act like we NEVER make money post flop which is just wrong.
11-10-2014 , 05:09 PM
Check flop

      
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