3 betpot 100nl, Give up or bet? - Small Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Two Plus Two Forums Archived Forums Strategy Small Stakes PL/NL

3 betpot 100nl, Give up or bet?

...

01-14-2009 , 08:42 AM

Dsm124

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 158

LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

UTG: $140.20
CO: $99.50
Hero (BTN): $146.10
SB: $15.05
BB: $72.20

Pre-Flop: A

dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG folds, CO raises to $4, Hero raises to $13.50, 2 folds, CO calls $9.50

Flop: ($28.50) Q

(2 Players)
CO checks, Hero bets $20, CO calls $20

Turn: ($68.50) 3

(2 Players)
CO checks,Hero?

Villain in this hand is tag,24/20/3 over large datamined sample
His fold to 3bet is 50% and his fold to cbet in 3bet pots is 50%
Is this a good spot to shove turn vs his range for calling flop?

$25m Guaranteed WPM on CoinPoker

Join the action now

Daily Rewards • Splash Pots • CoinRaces

01-14-2009 , 09:12 AM

Tib

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 561

I dont think the 3 of club is the good card to shove

01-14-2009 , 09:50 AM

jkoek

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 225

what r ur stats

01-14-2009 , 10:04 AM

The Desciple

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 428

I'd fire here 3/4 a lot but I'm think I can be too aggro in these spots - and my image is prob wrong to be doing it. Think shove looks bad. He has middle pp's a lot here (think sets raise flop), maybe flush draw, obv Q in his range and it depends if you think he'll have discipline to fold here - depends on your image.

I see quite a few regs checking here with AQ for pot control or perhaps to induce bluff at the end. Your in position so checking behind can be an option - I'd guess quite a few 2+2 regs would check behind and fold river to a bet.

01-14-2009 , 10:09 AM

Brian O'Nolan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6,499

Well, it's not a "good" double barrel card, but sometimes you have spots that are profitable to double even on bad cards. This COULD be a good spot if you have a tight image. Generally though I think there is too much paranoia with the CO/BTN dynamic to expect villain to be folding middle pairs/8x often enough here (trying to fold out Qx here is just about always really spewy).

01-14-2009 , 10:14 AM

h0psing

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 143

depends on how spewy you've been playing (image). if you're stuck i don't think villian folds turn with TT/JJ so you may have to fire a river barrel bluff. have you been barrelling and has he been calling down? or even if he's been folding alot this may be a hand he makes a stand.

more info./read please.

01-14-2009 , 10:19 AM

Virge

adept

Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,151

Agree with above mostly. It's one of the worst barreling cards in the deck. Not only does it whiff your range, but it low paired boards trigger the "stack off with any pair" reflex.

You'd need to have a really damn tight image, some history, or know that villain calls way too many cbets with very little equity but folds to further aggression to make this profitable.

Also, you're in position, so you can't even throw in the 'oh he may be floating' factor

01-14-2009 , 10:20 AM

All_In_Olly

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 527

A low non-flush completing card pairing the board is pretty bad for barrelling in this spot.

I'm no expert on double barrelling but imo you need a specific read to double barrel on non-scare cards (e.g. tendency to float, or fold underpairs to a non scare card double barrel).

Last edited by All_In_Olly; 01-14-2009 at 10:28 AM. Reason: Spelling

01-14-2009 , 10:24 AM

Dsm124

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 158

My stats here would be about 21/17 for those who asked for info.

01-14-2009 , 10:28 AM

#10

amfox

adept

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 814

Check and look to bet out on an A, K or non-A/K/Q heart river if checked to.

01-14-2009 , 10:30 AM

#11

craiggerz

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tib

I dont think the 3 of club is the good card to shove

That's what makes it a good card.

01-14-2009 , 10:33 AM

#12

Joliq

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 334

If I knew he couldn't really have a Q or 88 once he flats the flop, and I knew he wouldn't call super light on the turn with like 99 or TT or something, and my image was clean I'd want to bet since then he as like 99,TT,JJ a bunch and just folds.

But I think without knowing that he can't have a strong hand/won't call light thinking our ranges are pretty wide in this spot/what he thinks of us, I don't really want to shove on a card that a) doesn't make the board any scarier and b) doesn't help our equity.

01-14-2009 , 10:40 AM

#13

Pinos

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 110

no way he folds a pair

01-14-2009 , 11:02 AM

#14

HoldEmNewby

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,388

if your image is reasonable i think the 3 is a really good card for you to fire again on.

01-14-2009 , 01:17 PM

#15

The Desciple

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 428

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoldEmNewby

if your image is reasonable i think the 3 is a really good card for you to fire again on.

I mean I think this should be so true. The Hero is repping AA,KK,QQ or AQ or even KQ here so the 3 is a great card. Now I know that this is a narrowish range but villian shouldn't be too happy calling down with
6's, 7's 9's - at 21/17 his image can't be that loose that villian is putting him on complete air with this double barrel.

Perhaps it is a issue with the co vs btn dynamics or something but Tag should fold all low pp's and even consider dumping bad Q's just not sure that they will.

01-14-2009 , 01:30 PM

#16

klink10k

banned

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 11,721

its fine to bet the turn here.

$25m Guaranteed WPM on CoinPoker

Join the action now

Daily Rewards • Splash Pots • CoinRaces

...