When to donklead in a 3bet pot oop? A casestudy.
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 7
In a 4 players game (5 max, 1 sitting out) I have 110 BB, BU around the same.
I open with Js8sTh3h UTG (in this special case I feel positive about that being plus EV).
We get 3bet by BU who 3bets, if so, only AA and premium KK hands.
Flop comes down 986 all diamonds - so we are behind or dead in this hand.
Is that a good situation to bluff lead? maybe like 35-40% potsize? If BU does not have the Ad in his hand he often has to fold. How do you play such situations?
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 310
you called a 3bet oop with a marginal hand, missed, have no diamond in the hand and now you want to donklead?
Ok.
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 569
In 3BP OOP on unpaired boards the shape of our overall strat according to monkersolver should be:
highest EQ hands: high frequency small bet, low freq X
Medium-High EQ hands: high frequency large sizing (PSB)
Low EQ hands (that cannot be profitably played as x/c): small sizing
Lowest EQ hands: x/f
generally speaking the best options according to the solver are small bet, large bet, check
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,627
Imo, Best pure bluffs in plo are into a one suit board or low paired flop. If he calls, i would be expect to have to fire a second bullet, which is probably burning money.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 10,944
Nice "case-pleasetellmehowtoplay-study"
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 7
@ therunbad - Hey thank you. What an extremely useful comment.
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 7
@jjjou812 + @+EVillain - thank you for your inputs.
My idea was that if he does not have the Adxd he has to fold. Therefor a 35% potbet to get the job done seemed fine to me.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,627
He could get sticky w overpair, bc of shorthanded play or the bare a, if he is a bluffer.
If you bet the flop, he calls and then you bet the turn and he calls or raises, i would show my hand at showdown or before folding and tell him i was trying to move him off an overpair. When the bluff doesnt work, get some advertising value from it for the future.
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 4,669
what is villain going to do if you check?
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 320
I would muck this hand to the 3b.
As played, if you want to bluff i think you need to lead for pot and pray he doesn't have Ad, which could very well be in his hand if his 3b is mostly AA and kk heavy. Edit: bc of this read, this is an excellent reason not to bluff
If he's the type of player that gives up on monotone flops then all the power to you. You don't know until you feel him out. But I wouldn't be calling 3bets light looking for bluffing opportunities oop. They do come up, but let them come to you.
(Ps, PokerPlayingGamble, could you give some insight into my latest thread in this board? I appreciate your input)
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 7
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,052
Do you think it is profitable to lead out on a monotone board, in a 3bet pot, when villain is likely to have a high cbet percentage, since he is driving the action?
If villain has no diamonds, he shouldn't be calling any bets on the this flop, unless he is nuts. However, it would seem odd to lead out on this flop and potentially put yourself in a situation where you are forcing villain to fold the worst hand, instead of trying to extract value.
I would lead more towards a check raise, either on the flop or turn, depending on how villain decides to play.
If I were villain and you led out on this flop, I would likely raise pot or flat call because that line seems very unprofitable. I'm driving the action, the perception should be that my hand is the stronger one, so I'm going to make you decided whether or not your hand is strong enough to continue on the flop or the turn.
Generally I'm leading out in a 3bet pot OOP with some sort of hand that connected with a flop, that doesn't really look like it connected, because I assume villain will raise me or would be leaning towards a check anyway.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,658
Pre-flop is fine ofc no reason to comment on that.
Post flop you should just check and see what happens. You have zero blockers to the flush so the chance he has diamonds goes up. More importantly though if you are bluffing with this hand you are going to be bluffing with too many hands.
You can have a donking range here that consists of value/bluffs but you should be checking a decent amount anyway.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,627
If bluffing, i want to be the first in the pot, c/r costs more and players become stickier. It is hard for a player to continue without a set, 2 pair or the key A, 2 of 3 unlikley on this flop.
