weird plo equities - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

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weird plo equities

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02-08-2018 , 08:40 PM

abracadabranuts

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 95

What are some hands that equities seem unreal/weird for example this hand.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: 8

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Ks2c7cKh	40.98%	336	0
5d9d4s6s	59.02%	484	0

what other examples do you think are just wow

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02-09-2018 , 12:47 AM

illiterat

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Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,467

As much as it's trashed Jeff Hwang's big play strat. book highlights/explains this (with the slightly better wrap of T965).

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02-09-2018 , 12:58 AM

abracadabranuts

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Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 95

do you have his quote?

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02-09-2018 , 06:54 PM

illiterat

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Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,467

It's not really a quote. The entire book is mostly about thinking about spots where you limp pre. and then put 10x+ the pot in on the flop ... what are monster hands you want want to do that with, and why. So it encourages you to think in terms of top sets and 20 out wraps and how many redraws you have with made hands (this is all from memory).

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02-09-2018 , 09:19 PM

Itsmyfault

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Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 56

Feels wierd to have 25% here

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02-12-2018 , 06:12 PM

SolarAU

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 1,795

Mentally visualising equities from the flop in PLO can be strange for sure, with there often being backdoor equity and "drawing dead" cards on turns and such.

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02-12-2018 , 08:36 PM

Itsmyfault

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Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 56

So tru. The redraw factor is totally there but I find it hard to take them into consideration when calculating equities.

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02-14-2018 , 01:19 PM

Vanhaomena

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Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,048

board: Tc5d2h
QcJc9d8d 23.17%
TT22 76.83%

No pair no draw manages to have 23%

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02-14-2018 , 03:39 PM

Itsmyfault

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Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanhaomena

board: Tc5d2h
QcJc9d8d 23.17%
TT22 76.83%

No pair no draw manages to have 23%

That is actually insane..

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02-14-2018 , 06:52 PM

#10

illiterat

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanhaomena

board: Tc5d2h
QcJc9d8d 23.17%
TT22 76.83%

No pair no draw manages to have 23%

Two backdoor flush draws and any 6789JQKA gives you a straight draw

, SPR would be to be pretty low to even think of folding flop.

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02-15-2018 , 03:36 AM

#11

SolarAU

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 1,795

I love the above example, some of the worst beats I've ever dished out have come from big backdoor equity hands.

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02-15-2018 , 05:31 AM

#12

abracadabranuts

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 95

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: K

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Ah2h4sQc	56.10%	460	0
Kc2c8s3d	43.90%	360	0

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: K

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Ah2h4sQc	46.71%	383	0
Kc2c8s2d	53.29%	437	0

With the 3

its 44%, change it to a 2

its 53.29% how?

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02-15-2018 , 11:10 AM

#13

Itsmyfault

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Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 56

Without putting the hands in the dream machine, can you figure out what are the % for each player?

Spoiler:

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02-15-2018 , 12:43 PM

#14

Purasevic

adept

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 768

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsmyfault

Without putting the hands in the dream machine, can you figure out what are the % for each player?

Spoiler:

not hard ,they both have straight with 4 cards each for full house.

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02-15-2018 , 02:06 PM

#15

illiterat

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by abracadabranuts

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: K

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Ah2h4sQc	56.10%	460	0
Kc2c8s3d	43.90%	360	0

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: K

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Ah2h4sQc	46.71%	383	0
Kc2c8s2d	53.29%	437	0

With the 3

its 44%, change it to a 2

its 53.29% how?

This is somewhat less obvious, esp. as if it's KK5hh you want 3

instead (and this is the much more common situation).

The key is thinking about what happens on A

, 3

, 2

and Q

turns, with each hand. Basically the 3

does almost nothing for you (need to hit a runner straight while dodging

s), but the 2

blocks or dirties villains outs.

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02-15-2018 , 02:28 PM

#16

Itsmyfault

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Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 56

Can someone tell me how to calculate odds of having 4 of a kind in the hand?

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02-16-2018 , 04:52 AM

#17

AliceWhat

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsmyfault

Can someone tell me how to calculate odds of having 4 of a kind in the hand?

There are 270725 possible starting hands and 13 possible quads. So on average you will be dealt a four of a kind preflop once in 20825 hands.
These are the best blocker hands btw, you can rep nutstraights on certain flops with a healthy confidence.

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02-17-2018 , 08:39 AM

#18

abracadabranuts

enthusiast

Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 95

weird hand, how do equities stay the same when we change the 2h to a 8h because the 2h blocks the straight outs?

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: Q

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Js4s9c5d	40.12%	329	0
2h3hTc3c	59.88%	491	0

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

820 trials (Exhaustive)

board: Q

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
Js4s9c5d	40.73%	334	0
8h3hTc3c	59.27%	486	0

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02-17-2018 , 07:56 PM

#19

illiterat

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Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by abracadabranuts

weird hand, how do equities stay the same when we change the 2h to a 8h because the 2h blocks the straight outs?

They do go up. Although as with your previously example/question of (K2)82/(K2)83 your hands are basically garbage pre. and you need to worry a lot more about how your hand is doing vs. a range rather than vs. the specific hand villain showed up with.

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02-18-2018 , 12:06 AM

#20

abracadabranuts

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Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 95

I didn't actually play the hand was just messing around with propokertools and doing some equity sims yeah their garbage hands hehe.

When you say the do go up, are you talking about the .46? the two is one of our main outs you would think the equity would be a few % at least down changing it to a eight but no weird.

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02-18-2018 , 03:54 PM

#21

illiterat

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Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by abracadabranuts

just messing around with propokertools and doing some equity sims yeah their garbage hands hehe.

Again, ranges. PPT allows you to put them in. Esp. the K55 hand, it doesn't matter how well you are doing vs. flush draws with backdoor straights if you are crushed by KTTT.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abracadabranuts

When you say the do go up, are you talking about the .46? the two is one of our main outs you would think the equity would be a few % at least down changing it to a eight but no weird.

A 2 is not one of the main outs, it's the worst. the drawing hand has 9 spades, 3 7s and 3 2s. However the board pairing makes them all worthless. Just as importantly a spade hitting makes all 6 of the straight outs worthless and a 7 hitting makes all 3 of the 2 outs worthless. Taking all of that into account means that a random dead 2 is only worth 0.5%.

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02-18-2018 , 10:11 PM

#22

abracadabranuts

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Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 95

ok thanks! for explaining.

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02-18-2018 , 10:15 PM

#23

Rei Ayanami

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 11,685

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliceWhat

This is why skilled players like GGaRJ always play quads aggressively preflop.

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