Well PLO LAB is closing its doors. JNandez will launch his own site. There's a good YouTube about it.

Thread in NVG with posts from both JNandez and Doug deleted like it never existed. Can advertisers shut down threads as they wish or how does it work?

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...91/index2.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...91/index3.html

You would have to be wreckless to pay that much for some teaching. Phil Galfond will teach you to be Omaha master on youtube for get this $0.00.

https://www.youtube.com/user/DonkPlay7

kimokh is going to be the next upswing coach.
he is a multiple supernova elite and played in the toughest lineups for years.

the scenario with JNandez87 reminds me off the Swiss guy in wolf of wall street.

lautie would be a nuts coach but I doubt they will get a unique player.

How so? Upswing got caught with their pants down with regards to the contract, and Fernando under estimated the cost of employing his crew. Both sides made rookie mistakes but I don't see anything occurring in bad faith.

After all, either side could've been successful without the other.

I think Jay is going to make better content if he does it his way and would like to see content on hu over 6 max. I think he can get a lot more in depth in hu situations where we are playing a lot weaker hands and in much more marginal spots that make us wonder what to do.

There is crushers that play a lot wider have already proved it and made a lot more money then Jay has. Nobody is saying playing nitty is wrong btw. Jay is proving hes crushing with more nitty approach. Just a different style. But the big leaks and mistakes where we make the most money is opponents making a lot of mistakes post flop. Josh Tieman is the best I ever seen play. He played a lot wider then Jay and I think won around 10m on 6 max and hu and never had a bad down swing was a straight up crusher that didn't bum hunt. His ptr graph was amazing cause he didn't bum hunt he won around 10 bb win rate with heavy volume and it was the best looking graph I ever seen. I saw him destroy the best like they were nobodies 4 tabling them hu. it was poetry in motion.Tom Dwan is probably top of the food chain in plo and he also plays very wide. Ziggy also plays pretty wide and he has done well in plo. Isildur also plays very wide and is plo crusher now. It doens't seem to matter what form of poker is played the lags are the ones that feast and get to the highest stakes.

If you watch Jays videos the guys that are constantly 3b him and running big barrels and bluffs give him problems. He even left a table in one of his bank roll challenge vids cause the guy was on his left. Aggressive players are always the toughest to play against. There is one on acr he sits hu all 4 tables every day constantly 3b causing huge pots with pretty much any 4 cards by end of the day he has huge stacks on every table. He does it every day. He is a straight up crusher. The crushers are usually lags. Jay is a crusher being a nit. But saying to prove other wise thats pretty much all the crushers at nose bleeds. But to be fair I have only seen Jay show 6 max content. I want to see his HU content. No doubt he is one of the best. He can definitely open up his range more and get away with it.

iburydoscocaroaches i agree that there are a lot of players playing loose and winning big, although i don`t see Tom Dwan as one of the best online plo players but that's irrelevant.

The point is common critique that Jnandez plays nitty doesn`t mean much if he is proving that is also profitable.BTW his stats of 29/19/7 are not nitty imo.

Jnandez is very nitty just watch his videos. He folds double suited KK to 4b. Folds huge hands to raises and even was folding a high flush worried about straight flush and the guy shows a bluff on his bank roll challenge. It is 1 card in the deck.

The best player in the world is Josh Tieman nobody could even come close to his skill level. And Josh played very wide ranges back in the day at 6 max and won at 10 bb per 100 and didn't bum hunt. He won around 10m and almost never had a down swing playing heavy volume that had a nanonoko ptr graph. If they understand hand ranges and board textures well they can run circles around the other players don't matter their cards. Jay is at that level he can do it. To bad Josh vids are gone i think it would open up Jay mind to playing wider ranges and gaining more edge on post flop situations. Jays post flop skills is world class imo he should play wider. He can definitely out play a lot of these donks post flop with weaker ranges and make more money like Josh did.

I did find one video on poker strategy but I don't think i can post it on 2+2 cause it would be considered advertising and it shows Josh open 8654 ss utg at beginning of video ( jay would fall out of his chair). It was 1k plo you have to pay like 100 bucks to watch the whole vid though. He only has 1 vid left. It shows him raise utg with A965 ss to the A too I believe utg. Scott Palmer said he was the best at PLO. Josh actually crushed Scott heads upon 4 tables in strategy video mopped the floor with him. Trapped him, value towned him, bluffed him it was like watching poetry in motion. And he played very wide ranges heads up and 6 max and just crushed every day with heavy volume.

Dwan crushed some of the best at PLO live recently. He crushed the best online. he won I think 4 or 5m at PLO online. He may not be top of the food chain at Holdem but he is at PLO. You can watch how he played vs Ziggy at PLO on you tube. Watch him vs Antonius at plo heads up its on you tube as well and then come back on here and say he is not one of the best. He straight up world class at PLO.

Clarification is needed here. First Fernando was starting his BK roll challenge at playing microstakes. IIRC he folded that hand because he felt because of the stakes it was most likely a str8 flush. Also the player did in fact have the str8 flush card but not the goods.

As for Josh, do you think he could do a repeat starting at PLO50/PLO100? PLO is a lot different today vs a couple of years ago.

Josh really was just a guy who was great at exploiting players leaks and weaknesses at a level that pretty much nobody else could do it. Jay is 100% right that tight is right if your new to plo and your playing at lower levels. That is why I am saying I think the content is great for starting out fresh in PLO to have a solid foundation. I am just saying at the higher levels they tend to open up their game more which makes sense cause they are post flop beasts that can find edges vs other weaker post flop players. Jay is definitely at that level I see him run circles around opponents post flop. He does great he has a nice rhythm. And then he starts over thinking a spot with only 1 card beating him in the deck and he talks himself into folding. Math wise gto wise its a snap call they gotta show you the 1 outter. That is extremely nitty to fold A high flush in that spot. Some of his folds really tilt me. But that is what works for him to fold 1 outters I can't do it. I probably do call to much but at the same time I get info on the player and how they play post flop also make them realize they can't bluff me whenever they want.

Wtf is Josh Tieman?I thought Ben86 is the best plo 6max player.Anyway ds kk against

aa 100bb is a fold.

This proves to me JNandez is just cashing in on PLO interest and is kind of a sketchy guy--using Upswings already established market presence to get customers for his own training site tsk tsk

I never liked the guy. He seemed unstable from his videos where not sucking out a 25%er at 50PL for the 4th time in a row brought him to the edge of rage.

Runs super hot in the first part of his micro challenge and quits when he starts running like most of the rest of us do.

I really feel like the luck aspect of poker is purposely not talked about by these coaches which made me even more wary of giving anyone credit for short or medium term results.

Tl;dr poker is a scam and always has been

You should watch his end of year video on UTube. I think he was +$300k/yr

This took me back. During my short lived SNG grinding career I was a sponsored pro alongside Josh and Scott for a Merge skin, overbet.com.

Those ~6 weeks sharing a house with them in Vegas was pretty surreal to watch them grind. Now I'm just a bloke with a real job finally learning how to play online cash games =).

I was +$175k last year. See how easy it is to make **** up? Combine it with some savvy marketing and you get even more credibility.

I am quite skeptical his turbonit style wins money at stars 500z; in fact I'm almost certain his claims aren't true.

R U saying is modified his chart in HM? Did you watch the video?

I did. There's not enough information to conclude he's a winning player at PLO. He lost ~$100k playing tournaments on Pokerstars according to sharkscope. We don't know if that is included in these results. The results are only for his JNandez87 moniker on Stars, and include all games and stakes. We would need to see unbiased results from all accounts at only PLO to determine if he actually wins money. It's somewhat curious he doesn't show them and only shows HU results, given the common perception that midstakes PLO is his main game. He could be crushing at mixed games and losing at PLO for all we know.

I find this graph on rio forum,from russ tracking site think.

https://imgur.com/pjhVC0V

After 1 million hands he is basically marginal winner,I am sceptic he is crushing the game on other untracked sites.

Lol the truth just looks and sounds different, doesn't it?

This is more like it. So that's the absolute best you can hope for if you mimicked him totally. Obvious that he wanted to capitalize on these marginal winnings because he sees this winrate as not being viable in the near future. Why you would want coaching from someone who doesn't even think it's worth it for him to play much longer is an interesting question. Pigeons gonna pigeon.

to be fair those hands are quite old since that site hasn't tracked zoom for over 2 years


He did show his 6 max results in that video + he mentioned that he created a pt4 alias for his accounts on various networks and proceeds to show hands from stars, winamax, ipoker etc. obv this is only cash results and not tourneys

I think we have probably found the precise reason for his move into coaching then. The games certainly haven't got any easier in the past 2 years.




Not for PLO specifically unless I missed it? Like I said before, some of those winnings are from NLHE, which he plays frequently. Some of the other winnings could be from mixed games. We don't have any idea what his current PLO winrate is.