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Old 10-10-2017, 12:58 AM   #26
DoOrDoNot
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

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Originally Posted by JkSiddall View Post
Well you wouldn't asses the worth of the product from his personal application would you. The worth comes in what you can produce from the framework yourself.

It's really not a difficult concept. If you were to critique the course based on what it's actually offering that would be fair game, but you're not, you're critiquing it based on some fairly irrelevant factors whilst also having no understanding of the actual product offering.
Another concept which is really simple which you don't seem to be getting is that he is supposedly at the top of the food chain already, yet feels he can make more money by selling hope to others they can get to where he is rather than playing himself.

What do you do when you get to where he is? Start a training course of your own?
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:00 AM   #27
DoOrDoNot
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

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Originally Posted by gay_on_tse View Post
500 PLO University sold=$500k. After Upswing's cut for marketing, Jnandez made maybe $400-$450k?

That's 1.6 million hands at 5bb at 500z. In 12 months. Variance free.
Wonder what the actual size of the total player pool of all PLO games on the internet is on any given day....I'd be surprised if he has even 50 people signed up.
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:14 AM   #28
gay_on_tse
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

I'm afraid you have greatly underestimated the live PLO player pool and their purchasing power.
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Old 10-10-2017, 02:05 PM   #29
DuumaPomm
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

I must say I really hate the way over the top marketing. There is no holy grail poker course that will tranform you to crusher. Sure it may be good learning tool and provide valuable information but in the end you can learn same things by watching videos by other pros and thinking/working hard on your game. In the end you are the one who needs to figure out what is best and not follow blindly what somebody else tells you
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Old 10-10-2017, 04:46 PM   #30
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

True @DuumaPomm
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Old 10-10-2017, 08:23 PM   #31
CJ72
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

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Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
Another concept which is really simple which you don't seem to be getting is that he is supposedly at the top of the food chain already, yet feels he can make more money by selling hope to others they can get to where he is rather than playing himself.

What do you do when you get to where he is? Start a training course of your own?
Agree,.

Fernando is 30 yrs old, he doesn't want to be an online grinder all his life. He wants freedom and he understands it takes "FU" levels of money to do it.
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Old 10-11-2017, 03:05 AM   #32
JkSiddall
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

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Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
Wonder what the actual size of the total player pool of all PLO games on the internet is on any given day....I'd be surprised if he has even 50 people signed up.
Look mate, I don't wanna get into it with you where you just go off about random stuff to 'prove' your point and I don't want to repeat myself (too much).

You've clearly got some misunderstanding from somewhere, as to how much per hour a top tier online poker player is actually expected to earn. You're also very clearly, greatly underestimating how profitable selling courses actually is as a model when compared against playing poker for a living.

If you'd spent more time actually looking into the product offering than spending time on this forum bashing something you don't understand, you'd have realised there is a facebook group of which only paying members of the course are able to join. There you can satisfy your curiosity as to roughly the amount of courses they sell.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:06 AM   #33
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

Can't be arsed to look. What's the number?
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:31 PM   #34
DoOrDoNot
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

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Originally Posted by JkSiddall View Post
Look mate, I don't wanna get into it with you where you just go off about random stuff to 'prove' your point and I don't want to repeat myself (too much).

You've clearly got some misunderstanding from somewhere, as to how much per hour a top tier online poker player is actually expected to earn. You're also very clearly, greatly underestimating how profitable selling courses actually is as a model when compared against playing poker for a living.

If you'd spent more time actually looking into the product offering than spending time on this forum bashing something you don't understand, you'd have realised there is a facebook group of which only paying members of the course are able to join. There you can satisfy your curiosity as to roughly the amount of courses they sell.
I srs dunno how you missed it again, but I am the one who brought up the fact that Fernando deems it MORE profitable to teach a course than actually play poker. How the **** am I underestimating it? If he can make 150k playing and more teaching, then I'm correctly estimating it aren't I?

He also believes it's more profitable to go over to month to month instead of a one-time course, otherwise he wouldn't do it that way would he?

I don't need to see the course material--i know a lot of it is ripped from Chambers anyway like every other PLO course. The deductive part of the logic that you're missing is---if a top tier player doesn't want to play anymore, how worthwhile can his course possibly be?
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Old 10-11-2017, 01:27 PM   #35
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

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Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
I srs dunno how you missed it again, but I am the one who brought up the fact that Fernando deems it MORE profitable to teach a course than actually play poker. How the **** am I underestimating it? If he can make 150k playing and more teaching, then I'm correctly estimating it aren't I?

He also believes it's more profitable to go over to month to month instead of a one-time course, otherwise he wouldn't do it that way would he?

I don't need to see the course material--i know a lot of it is ripped from Chambers anyway like every other PLO course. The deductive part of the logic that you're missing is---if a top tier player doesn't want to play anymore, how worthwhile can his course possibly be?
how do you know he deems it more profitable to sell courses than to play? we can only speculate how many he sold. and even if he sold numbers you'd consider good, it's not like he can sell them again and again. afaik, people who already bought the course will now have free access to the new stuff. and I would imagine the influx of new customers wouldn't be too big, it's been on for a time and those who had interest in it have probably bought it already.

he saw a chance to add to his income and can you blame him? at least he actually is playing and has recent results to back it up (I think I saw it on his upswing profile, not sure), unlike some others who have been selling books for 2.5 grand and they last played 5 years before releasing. also, price tag he set is up to him, he could have put it to 100k if he wanted, noone is forcing you to buy anything. he clearly went for a big price/lower number of customers.

just for the record I didn't buy it and never would pay that much for some poker content, in my country that's huge money for a recreational player to pay for a book. but I don't see why he should get flamed for it.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:25 PM   #36
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

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Originally Posted by md46135 View Post
how do you know he deems it more profitable to sell courses than to play?
Because that's what he's focusing his time on?

Quote:
we can only speculate how many he sold. and even if he sold numbers you'd consider good, it's not like he can sell them again and again. afaik, people who already bought the course will now have free access to the new stuff. and I would imagine the influx of new customers wouldn't be too big, it's been on for a time and those who had interest in it have probably bought it already.
It's month to month now, so you're constantly paying. Pretty sure it's $200 + $100/mo so basically $1400 for a year.

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he saw a chance to add to his income and can you blame him?
Sure. I hate that he's teaching noobs how to play. He's ruining the PLO economy for personal gain just like they did with NLHE. You can shear a sheep thousands of times, but skin him only once....poker training turned the sheep into wolves. Brilliant strategy...if you're the one capitalizing on it. No respect for anyone who did or does that.

Quote:
he clearly went for a big price/lower number of customers.
And now he's going for a seemingly lower price (except it's bigger) because he feels he can make even more money that way.

Quote:
just for the record I didn't buy it and never would pay that much for some poker content, in my country that's huge money for a recreational player to pay for a book. but I don't see why he should get flamed for it.
See above for why he deserves beratement.

"Those that can't do, teach." Not saying it's not possible for someone to be a better teacher than player---and I can think of a few notable examples across various disciplines, but it's comparatively rare. People that excel in their field do not usually stop excelling in their field in order to teach others---it just doesn't make sense. The simplest explanation is that he's not as great a crusher as he seems, or he's getting out of playing poker for other reasons (games drying up, has a mental game problem, just went through a huge downswing, etc). All I'm saying is try and see through the hype and marketing and question some motivations before you buy into this.

Last edited by DoOrDoNot; 10-11-2017 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 10-11-2017, 06:48 PM   #37
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

lots of argument to read through so I am not sure if someone answered this already but..

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
Wonder what the actual size of the total player pool of all PLO games on the internet is on any given day....I'd be surprised if he has even 50 people signed up.


In the recent AMA video on youtube Jnandez off handed mentioned that there are over 500 members in the PLO uni / Joeingram1 alone posted on instagram that 45 people used his affiliate link this week to buy it. That's over $500k usd plus starting a monthly $200 + $100 sub seems like pretty decent money.

I wonder what the cut is between Upswing (doug/ryanfee/matt) and Jnandez is (plus maybe joey with his promo code too taking cuts)
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:47 PM   #38
CJ72
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

@MD46135

Just a clarification. People who bought PLOU do not have to pay the $200 entry fee, but still must pay $100/mo for the new content.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:00 AM   #39
JkSiddall
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
I srs dunno how you missed it again, but I am the one who brought up the fact that Fernando deems it MORE profitable to teach a course than actually play poker. How the **** am I underestimating it? If he can make 150k playing and more teaching, then I'm correctly estimating it aren't I?

He also believes it's more profitable to go over to month to month instead of a one-time course, otherwise he wouldn't do it that way would he?

I don't need to see the course material--i know a lot of it is ripped from Chambers anyway like every other PLO course. The deductive part of the logic that you're missing is---if a top tier player doesn't want to play anymore, how worthwhile can his course possibly be?
If you're point is 'if he can't make more money playing plo than teaching it he musn't be that good', thats just too dumb to be for real? I'm obviously missing something here.

Last edited by JkSiddall; 10-12-2017 at 12:16 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:37 AM   #40
gay_on_tse
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

He is playing and teaching at the same time, thus more profitable than just playing. How hard is it to understand?
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:30 AM   #41
TreadLightly
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

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He is playing and teaching at the same time, thus more profitable than just playing. How hard is it to understand?
all of us donkeys who buy it are gunna hop into his stakes and CRUSH him, he'll have to quit poker soon m8
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:49 PM   #42
esspoker
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

Save your money and buy Siddhartha.

You don't get enlightenment by following the Master. You get it by going your own way.

Actually he got it by studying theory in depth. Now he's passing that knowledge on to you. I'd go to the source he got it from, but that's me.
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Old 10-14-2017, 05:05 AM   #43
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Re: Upswing Poker PLO University worth it?

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Originally Posted by TreadLightly View Post
lots of argument to read through so I am not sure if someone answered this already but..





In the recent AMA video on youtube Jnandez off handed mentioned that there are over 500 members in the PLO uni / Joeingram1 alone posted on instagram that 45 people used his affiliate link this week to buy it. That's over $500k usd plus starting a monthly $200 + $100 sub seems like pretty decent money.

I wonder what the cut is between Upswing (doug/ryanfee/matt) and Jnandez is (plus maybe joey with his promo code too taking cuts)
Id guess 50/50, be very surprised if J gets more than that.. maybe 60%. He does all the work but its still dougs name that made a large chunk of those 500 people spend $1000 on a course
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