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Small Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 1/2 and below pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 05-09-2020, 09:17 AM   #1
bubukin
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Top set+second nuts flush draw

How to play this hand to get much value as possible?
[converted_hand][hand_history]iPoker - 0.20 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

BB: 8.22 (41.1 bb)
Hero (UTG): 22.62 (113.1 bb)
CO: 13.61 (68.1 bb)
BTN: 67.31 (336.6 bb)
SB: 35.57 (177.9 bb)

SB posts 0.10, BB posts 0.20

Pre Flop: (pot: 0.30) Hero has J K Q K
Hero raises to 0.70, CO calls 0.70, 2 folds, BB calls 0.50

Flop: (2.20, 3 players) 2 7 K
BB checks, Hero bets 1.10, fold, BB calls 1.10

Turn: (4.40, 2 players) 2
BB checks, Hero bets 1.40, BB calls 1.40
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Old 05-10-2020, 03:40 AM   #2
Travbana
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Re: Top set+second nuts flush draw

Line looks fine.
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Old 05-10-2020, 09:50 PM   #3
McToady
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Re: Top set+second nuts flush draw

Personally would bet slightly bigger on the flop 3 way (~60-65%), other than that it looks fine and sets you up to shove river nicely vs shortstack.
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:25 AM   #4
Bullten
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Re: Top set+second nuts flush draw

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Originally Posted by McToady View Post
Personally would bet slightly bigger on the flop 3 way (~60-65%), other than that it looks fine and sets you up to shove river nicely vs shortstack.
+1
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Old 05-22-2020, 06:48 PM   #5
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: Top set+second nuts flush draw

Surprised no one suggested flop check here. How we ever gonna be anywhere near balanced if we don't check combos like this? We have the board on absolute lockdown.
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Old Today, 05:57 AM   #6
Loctus
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Re: Top set+second nuts flush draw

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Originally Posted by RalphWaldoEmerson View Post
Surprised no one suggested flop check here. How we ever gonna be anywhere near balanced if we don't check combos like this? We have the board on absolute lockdown.
There is still plenty of hands that will call a flop bet.. To win money in poker you want to make people put more money into the pot when you have the best hand, so we bet (I don't mean this in a patronizing way, but it's easy to lose track of this objective when talking strat imo)..

I'd check if we had the nut flushdraw and topset here (so AKKx with nfd on K72hh). Also would check for example topset+midset blocker on a rainbow board. So if this was K72r and we had KKQ7.

But KKQJhh on K72hh? Bet imo. Put more money in. We have a superstrong hand but there are still a bunch of calling combos out there and our hand isn't immortal due to the possible precense of nfd
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Old Today, 03:03 PM   #7
RalphWaldoEmerson
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Re: Top set+second nuts flush draw

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Originally Posted by Loctus View Post
There is still plenty of hands that will call a flop bet.. To win money in poker you want to make people put more money into the pot when you have the best hand, so we bet (I don't mean this in a patronizing way, but it's easy to lose track of this objective when talking strat imo)..

I'd check if we had the nut flushdraw and topset here (so AKKx with nfd on K72hh). Also would check for example topset+midset blocker on a rainbow board. So if this was K72r and we had KKQ7.

But KKQJhh on K72hh? Bet imo. Put more money in. We have a superstrong hand but there are still a bunch of calling combos out there and our hand isn't immortal due to the possible precense of nfd
what's really easy to lose track of in poker (and which many beginning poker players literally never learn is)......what a range is and what range construction is/means

I sort of hear you on checking KK+nfd or KK7X and betting all others....at the same time I sort of don't...
My guess is population plays same strat as you and has insanely exploitable checking ranges in all spots...I'm talking 60+% XF stat on turns/rivers

BTW worth mentioning we are not last to act here...if it's HU IP I'm more inclined to cbet bc we need to stack 22/77 by river...but in this scenario CO can do the betting for us, further removing the reasoning for cbet

Last edited by RalphWaldoEmerson; Today at 03:10 PM.
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Old Today, 04:27 PM   #8
Caterina
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Re: Top set+second nuts flush draw

Please explain how checking the second best hand or as suggested best hand in our range helps balance? Do we not have strong hands in the middle of our range that we can use for c/c instead?

- Do we want to do it everytime? -> Doesn't that unbalance our betting range (and make it easier to float us)?
- Do we want to do it some of the time? Use a randomizer?
- Do we never cbet with the dry Ah or dry Kh here?
- If we check, do we check/raise or are we trying to "trap"?
- Is that an overall good strat for 20PLO?
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