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Old 05-05-2021, 01:41 AM   #1
konnak
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Tone factor issue with monkersolution

PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi FAST (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 217.5 BB
SB: 108 BB
BB: 88 BB
UTG: 152.5 BB
MP: 178.5 BB
CO: 102.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2 K K Q

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 1 BB, fold, BB checks

Flop: (3.5 BB, 3 players) Q 8 A
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 2.5 BB, BB calls 2.5 BB, fold

Turn: (8.5 BB, 2 players) J
BB bets 8 BB, Hero raises to 32 BB, BB raises to 84.5 BB and is all-in, fold

BB wins 70 BB


I tried to solve this with monker and i have 50%/ pot/ allin options so solution isnt that accuracy but close enough. I upload screenshot of the monkersolution

monkersolution link = https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1n3cwtz93...rtest.png?dl=0


Question is
The solution tells me that at least i should have 2 clubs to shove. But why all-in option needs so much hearts and diamonds too?

Thanks
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Old 05-05-2021, 02:09 AM   #2
yasuo
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

is flop GTO?
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:57 AM   #3
SeaKing
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

Quit while you're behind.
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Old 05-05-2021, 06:31 AM   #4
konnak
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

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Originally Posted by yasuo View Post
is flop GTO?
well close enough i guess. I am using 50%pot bet at btn.
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Old 05-05-2021, 06:32 AM   #5
konnak
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

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Quit while you're behind.
Sure, main point is to understand game better especially monkers solutions.
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Old 05-06-2021, 01:33 PM   #6
CardiffGiant
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

Something to do with bdfd? Either way don't think too much about it, it's easy to spend hours going down these rabbit holes with Monker and adding very little EV. You got the important part (need 2 clubs to shove), now move on.
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Old 05-06-2021, 01:51 PM   #7
illiterat
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

This hand is why people recommend not looking at solvers until you are playing midstakes.

No way solver just limps pre. and I kind of doubt solver bets this flop, even if you nodelock the pre. limp (maybe esp. so).

Just looking at HU turn "strats." for a solver is bad, as said it never gets here like this as hero or BB ... and when it does get here it's going to have different ranges. Super likely that BB has the most unbalanced ranges ever on turn, like nodelock 90%:KT/T9, 6% random sets and 4% two pair:cc and is never folding any of it and then see what monker tells you to do.

Sure, sometimes BB will be insane bluffing something random or have something random that's better and folds ... but sometimes here is like 1-5% of the time, and ranges will be just as bad on every other hand.
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Old 05-06-2021, 05:41 PM   #8
Jreven
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

@illiterat I concur if your assessment on solvers. It is good to know the information but a lot of it does not apply to micro stakes post flop. People play so many random hands at this level that solvers would fold pre.
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Old 05-06-2021, 06:46 PM   #9
InkyPoker
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

Flop is a good bet. I think it's a huge mistake not to bet there. I'd just pot, but smaller can be okay.

Fold pre tho.

Turn is okay but I'd probably just flat and bluff river.
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Old 05-07-2021, 04:33 AM   #10
yasuo
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

Interesting that we should bet the flop. Thought this hand has okish sdv without enough blockers or equity vs their continuing range so we should check
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Old 05-07-2021, 01:52 PM   #11
InkyPoker
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

No, we have great continuation and also draw to blockers, and block middle set/top two. We play way better betting than checking down.
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Old 05-12-2021, 12:57 AM   #12
konnak
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

Quote:
Originally Posted by illiterat View Post
This hand is why people recommend not looking at solvers until you are playing midstakes.

No way solver just limps pre. and I kind of doubt solver bets this flop, even if you nodelock the pre. limp (maybe esp. so).

Just looking at HU turn "strats." for a solver is bad, as said it never gets here like this as hero or BB ... and when it does get here it's going to have different ranges. Super likely that BB has the most unbalanced ranges ever on turn, like nodelock 90%:KT/T9, 6% random sets and 4% two pair:cc and is never folding any of it and then see what monker tells you to do.

Sure, sometimes BB will be insane bluffing something random or have something random that's better and folds ... but sometimes here is like 1-5% of the time, and ranges will be just as bad on every other hand.

I guess gto should never limp here, but i tried to set some reasonable limp ranges preflop to optimize the scenario. This is Hu strat and in this threeway pot solver might just favor check more if set up that way. And yes bb will have the most unbalanced range here, i will do some nodelockin fo futher interes here. Thanks!
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Old 05-12-2021, 01:00 AM   #13
konnak
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

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Originally Posted by yasuo View Post
Interesting that we should bet the flop. Thought this hand has okish sdv without enough blockers or equity vs their continuing range so we should check
That is absolutely good point too.
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Old 05-12-2021, 01:15 AM   #14
konnak
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

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Originally Posted by InkyPoker View Post
No, we have great continuation and also draw to blockers, and block middle set/top two. We play way better betting than checking down.
Solver tells check 2.5%, 50% bet 50%pot and 47% 100%pot. but as it was spoken earlier, this solver set up is quite inaccurated.

Generally i am not sure if utg hits this flop very often with the limp range, bb with just checking pf hits never. So maybe bet is okay. But if flop bet is called, there is very often an unbalanced range that villain will continue to the end.
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Old 05-12-2021, 01:22 AM   #15
konnak
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Re: Tone factor issue with monkersolution

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Originally Posted by Jreven View Post
@illiterat I concur if your assessment on solvers. It is good to know the information but a lot of it does not apply to micro stakes post flop. People play so many random hands at this level that solvers would fold pre.
Yep, u absolutely right. I still believe this information is still useful to understand poker more, even if you are at microstakes.
Trying to understand this kind of stuff might slow down little bit progress as a pokerplayer.

But i guess you do stuff you are interested in (atm) and maybe learn someday what is irrelevant and what relevant.
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