I have kept on studying every day. Still playing 1k-2k hands or so per day.

I have taken the suggestions in the thread. I have tightened up quite a bit in EP and my SB RFI is down too (right around my CO RFI range a little higher). I have attempted to improve my river calls but it is not working out. But according to my stats this mistake is only costing me a couple buyins over the entire 80k sample. So this is NOT the big issue that is causing the downswing. Though it is definitely a leak of mine.

Since making this thread I am now losing even worse than before. It is nuts. I just don't know anymore. It feels like every hand I am just completely ****ed. I have felt this way many many times before. Everyone has downswings. Everyone questions their ability time to time. I just never had it last so long and be so absolutely steady. Just STRAIGHT DOWN.

I just can't seem to comprehend how a thinking player could lose 10bb/100 over 80k hands. It seems incomprehensible. I have 10million hands online of NL. I have had some insane downswings during that time. But nothing even close to this.

/whiny rant. I appreciate the people that have reached out for the study buddy thing. But honestly right now, I am just a typical whiner. I don't have any solid input at all. I feel like my entire poker career was a fluke and I am just too dumb to win in todays climate. AKA I am no good for any discords right now. Thanks

maybe u just suck

to be honest, someone that loses 10+bb/100 on 80k hands on micros is not a thinking player, even the biggest nits who just play their cards can beat micros for 5+bb

Thats the worst you can do, you obv have a lot of things to improve and its clear from your sample you are not good enough to improve on your own.
Use whatever free advice you can get from those discord groups or whatever you can and learn, learn, learn..

Easiest thing is to just whine how you run like ****. Put in some effort and you will improve for sure

I mean he isn't even running bad. His orange/green line is roughly the same. I realize there are other ways you can run bad like being on the wrong end of coolers over and over but that is usually a good proxy for how you are running.

It is likely you are just bad at PLO. The fact your results are basically straight down and like the other poster said you would literally be better off folding all rivers than doing what you are actually doing tells me you are very bad on later streets. Making money at PLO is largely about playing post-flop. It seems like you need to work on that.

And still not posted a single hand here.

That's not how it works, you are measuring the difference from 1 ... I would be surprised if 1 was the optimal number there, esp. as you go down in stakes. From a quick look at PT4 over the last ~7k hands at 25 PLO I have a 1.13 Call eff. and I wouldn't be shocked if that was bad.

checked mine,it is 1.44

Dont know what number is optimal but overall people underbluff a lot on PLO25 so it would be logical to fold a lot


10bbloser, how many tables you play?

10 hrs of coaching @ $50 USD/hr would be a worthwhile investment for you imo.

Disclaimer - I'm not offering that service.

If you think that's too much money, and think you can study on your own, I'd buy a winning player's stats for $100-$200.

Disclaimer - (You can buy mine for that much if you have stars )

The actual number depends a lot on your style and the pool, but people will shove into you with the nuts so your actual number should of course be greater than 1. I've read 1.2-1.7 is the range for most winning players, and I think 1.4-1.7 is pretty solid for easy games.

So you are saying that I could beat the micros if I just play my cards? Isn't that what non thinking players do? They just play their cards?

The things I do that they do not do, is put my opponents on a range. Give myself a range. And play the hand accordingly. I also balance my play and bet sizing based on board texture, number of opponents, and expected ranges. I play fairly tight aggressive. I am playing a 24/17/6 style. I am not getting out of line. My cbet % is standard. my WTSD is standard. I am not just sitting around calling down bull**** all day.

I do not get action when I make a hand. And when I think I have a solid hand I am dominated. Plain and simple and it is happening every day all day. I get it in good almost never. Because when I am good, I get no action.

Villain was 75/60/30 player

Winning Poker, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 5 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $12.54 (125 bb)
CO: $8.95 (90 bb)
BU: $18.01 (180 bb)
SB: $35.89 (359 bb)
BB (Hero): $10.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with 8♦ Q♦ Q♥ T♣
1 fold, CO raises to $0.28, 2 players fold, Hero 3-bets to $0.84, CO calls $0.56

Flop: ($1.73) Q♣ 8♣ K♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $1.23, CO raises to $5.34, Hero raises to $9.16 (all-in), CO calls $2.77 (all-in)

This player was 94/65/33

Winning Poker, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $15.11 (151 bb)
MP: $23.46 (235 bb)
CO: $15.74 (157 bb)
BU (Hero): $11.45 (115 bb)
SB: $10.00 (100 bb)
BB: $10.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with A♦ 9♣ K♠ T♦
2 players fold, CO raises to $0.29, Hero 3-bets to $1.02, 2 players fold, CO 4-bets to $3.06, Hero calls $2.04

Flop: ($6.27) J♦ T♣ 2♠ (2 players)
CO bets $4.47, Hero raises to $8.39 (all-in), CO calls $3.92

UTG was an 88/74/60

Winning Poker, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $55.06 (220 bb)
MP: $97.14 (389 bb)
CO: $25.00 (100 bb)
BU (Hero): $27.77 (111 bb)
SB: $25.00 (100 bb)
BB: $6.10 (24 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BTN with A♦ T♥ K♦ 4♦
UTG raises to $1, 2 players fold, Hero calls $1, SB calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75

Flop: ($4) 9♣ 4♠ 4♣ (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $1.25, Hero raises to $4.40, SB folds, BB raises to $5.10 (all-in), UTG raises to $54.06 (all-in), Hero calls $22.37 (all-in)

V is 42/22/3

Winning Poker, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 5 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $15.20 (152 bb)
CO (Hero): $17.13 (171 bb)
BU: $9.34 (93 bb)
SB: $9.10 (91 bb)
BB: $12.05 (121 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with A♠ K♦ J♦ 9♦
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.35, 1 fold, SB calls $0.30, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.80) J♥ 7♦ K♠ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.38, SB calls $0.38

Turn: ($1.56) 6♠ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.11, SB raises to $4.82, Hero raises to $15.95, SB calls $3.55 (all-in)

Winning Poker, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $13.98 (140 bb)
MP: $10.00 (100 bb)
CO: $10.00 (100 bb)
BU: $19.65 (197 bb)
SB (Hero): $11.30 (113 bb)
BB: $12.26 (123 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A♠ A♥ 2♣ 9♥
UTG calls $0.10, MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.60, BB calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50

Flop: ($3) 8♥ A♦ J♥ (5 players)
Hero bets $0.71, BB calls $0.71, UTG calls $0.71, MP calls $0.71, CO calls $0.71

Turn: ($6.55) T♣ (5 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1.55, UTG folds, MP raises to $8.69 (all-in), CO folds, Hero raises to $9.99 (all-in), BB folds

V is typical russian "bot" 25/16/3. His 3bet range is literally AA and good KK with no 4bet he has no AA here. SPR just over 1. Am I suppose to check fold here? Normally I just jam, but I was hoping his KK would think he had some FE so I bet less.

Winning Poker, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 5 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $15.08 (151 bb)
CO (Hero): $11.85 (119 bb)
BU: $22.73 (227 bb)
SB: $10.00 (100 bb)
BB: $10.07 (101 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with A♠ T♠ J♦ A♥
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.35, BTN 3-bets to $1.20, 2 players fold, Hero 4-bets to $3.60, BTN calls $2.40

Flop: ($7.35) 7♠ 6♦ 9♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $4.09, BTN calls $4.09

Turn: ($15.53) 7♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $4.16 (all-in), BTN calls $4.16

Spoiler he had AQ58

UTG is a 49/27/22 player. Fold pre right?

Winning Poker, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 5 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG (Hero): $33.27 (133 bb)
CO: $45.89 (184 bb)
BU: $9.75 (39 bb)
SB: $64.27 (257 bb)
BB: $28.71 (115 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is UTG with A♥ K♦ Q♠ K♥
Hero raises to $0.85, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.85, 1 fold, BB 3-bets to $7.70, Hero 4-bets to $33.27 (all-in), BTN calls $8.90 (all-in), BB calls $21.01 (all-in)

V is 18/14/3 face up nit. He has AA here 99%.

Winning Poker, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

UTG: $29.18 (117 bb)
MP (Hero): $25.00 (100 bb)
CO: $37.93 (152 bb)
BU: $13.01 (52 bb)
SB: $46.54 (186 bb)
BB: $42.54 (170 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP with 4♣ 7♠ 8♦ 5♦
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.85, 2 players fold, SB 3-bets to $2.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.90

Flop: ($5.75) J♦ 7♦ 8♣ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $5.47, SB raises to $21.88, Hero raises to $22.25 (all-in), SB calls $0.37

Ok, we have something to work with... a bit too many hands at once, but at least something...


This is kind of a cooler (assuming you lost), but the 3bet is very meh IMO ... Q(Q8)T sucks as an OOP 3bet, esp. because people will put you on overpairs a lot. What flops do you think you'll like betting on, what are you going to bet? You probably were going to lose a bunch of money on this hand no matter what, but it still matters how you lost.

This is just bad.

Pre. is marginal because BB can so easily raise with his short stack and then UTG can put you in crappy spots. Even if you see a flop in position you are doing it with 3 cards and a blocker to your flush draw.

Just clicking pot because you have A4 on 944 is nlhe thinking. This is where it's "easy" for UTG, if he has TT+ or K9 or random air he is bluffing with you just made his life easy. Dito. if he has rando 94/99.

Even if he's stacking off with any 4 ...

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: 944

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
AdKdTh4d	47.26%	247,644	71,837
(99,4):74%	52.74%	280,519	71,837

...welcome to PLO.

So that last hand is sort of a table dynamic thing. Me and the villian were literally just playing HU, with the other people just sort of being there in the middle folding a lot. He was playing and raising nearly every hand. So I was definitely coming in light. He had a huge stack and was just splashing literally going allin pre with any 4 usually, and stacking off with any pair. I dont consider my sizing against these players. I just go for max value anytime I catch a decent piece.

The QQ hand is sort of similar, I do not usually 3bet this hand. The only players I 3bet this against are mega whales that play nearly every hand. Which this guy was with stats of 88vpip and 77pfr.

But yeah looking through my DB I do put myself in a lot of marginal spots. Going to work on it. In the game flow I sort of try to isolate the fish and wind up getting it in bad against them alot thinking they are light. And they are not.

These are my 10plo stats for 2019. I mean I would think it would be difficult to lose this much if I just played every hand all the way down. 69bb/100? Thinking player or not, like where is the random luck upswing? Even the worst player on the planet wins 10 buyins now and then.

Yeah obviously. I am trying to figure out how to not suck anymore.

Yeah trying to figure out where to start. If I am so bad that I am a 15bb/100 loser at my base. And the standard nit playing their hand face up is a 5bb/100 winner.

Then I need to learn how to be a face up monkey? Like I know how to nut pedal. I am fine doing that. It is basically what I do now as you can see by my declining red line. But how is my blue line so bad? You can see my stats. I am not out of line AT ALL.

I typically play between 4 and 6. Its very comfortable to me. Every hour or so you get that rush of big decisions all at once and you can get a tiny bit flustered, but for the most part I am very comfortable playing this many tables and could definitely play more if I wasnt getting my head stomped in every day.

I think it's pretty obvious you can't play this style profitably. I would tighten up for starters and go from there.

Ok but trying to adjust my stats by "tightening up" is not working for me either.

I need to know why and how right?

Like I generally play hands that fit the playability criteria. Suited, Nutted, Connected. Then I adjust for position and the players around me.

If just playing the top 10% hands works, I will do it. But it does not feel like I am playing that loose of a style. I could definitely 3bet less. And I could throw away a lot of single suited hands. But even if I get my range down to what? 18/11/3? I am going to lose less sure, but am I going to be winning?

Like obviously I know a million things I can do to lose less than 70bb/100. I am not trying to adjust my play to fit the stats. I am trying to adjust my play to be the correct play.

**** the stats, don't pay that much attention to that. I am not gonna play 30/20/8, just because the biggest crusher @ my stakes plays that. You are gonna start making a ton more mistakes by trying to emulate someones style/stats. 3b less OOP, play more IP and stick to the nuts. I think you overvalue a lot of your hands and that blue line kinda shows that you are very call-happy.