Below plo200 games died about a year ago, or there is one site that sometimes has games there (juicy/inter, if they stay in business, and if you have a rakeback, but note that you need to rake your deposit or a part of it before you can cash out from many small sites, and there might not be enough games running on regular bases if at all these days), and the Finnish-Austrian site has action (ipoker software, but no hud).

For 200 and above, it seems there are some problems, like not enough 400 games running (not talking about the stars zoom above it, that I will never play).

The rake in the ROW (but USA) is too high in live games (although the scores are reported to be like 8x higher than online, and that goes for any form of poker, including tourneys), and though there are tourneys with maybe a reasonable juice, there is also entrance fee (like 10e/day, plus travel costs/parking) and not enough tourneys of significant size in one place (and they might be too fast blind levels in one way or the other), so it is more like entertainment than making money, but again, I don't have the long run, and things are different at different places in the world. And Ts are mainly just nlh.

In the USA, plo exists at some places (expect some 5 dollar rake or so, rather than the euro 10 to 20e rake in 200 to 1k games; you can try relate that to online games to get a line of what you might win, and it won't be enough at 400 w/ 10e cap rake, with online winrates).

Also, the live games are very slow, especially in some nlh fr games where someone is opening too loose, taking away your late open and BB calls, in case playable with the rake. Looking at your 4 hole cards is an extra trouble in plo, and then tracking the pot size (in any form and format), and then how you feel like sitting there playing, especially when it is slow, plus as it is a fr, the odds are pretty good it is a nitfest postflop and top2 and middle set in plo is never a sure caller vs. a raise or even a multiway donk in plo, but when it is short stacks (in theory), and the 200 bb stacks make it even nittier, in theory, but even if there is good action, it might dry up. Also, keeping track (online tracking live games) if empty seats, and think at what time to enter, and then are you going to play till early morning, and do you need to get out with your cash, and is it safe even if not, and this more so at some countries.

I suppose one could travel in vegas or so to play the 400+ games, if they run plo also there and have some cheap accommondation option during non summers (WSOP, 40 C); one (EU) can be there up to 90 days straight, and if from Canada or Mexico, maybe 6 months straight, but it is taxed (and tourney winnings of 5k or more gets cut by 30% or so).

As you probably can't prove gambling loses, you should not gamble in the USA, but just play poker. No tax cuts that I am aware of when playing cash and winning 5k+ (some ROW countries might, at least from Ts winnings up to any size), but in one's own country, and then prove all the costs, if still ahead that year, and if not, one better be able to prove it.

There will be taxes but if you are from the UK or so (they still pay in the USA but get it back). But that (taxes) can be just once per year, but still, variance can be a problem. In Canada one may not pay any taxes but when a pro (after 1-2 years or so, but not sure, just read about it).

Deducting the costs and if they would cover up the taxes, but then one isn't winning any, but the cost, one still paying for it, but at least it is better than nothing.

Finally it comes down to: You can build a BR on every site if your skillset is good enough.

Question is: Is it worth it?

That`s it.

Skillset and time. Time can be an issue.

For a rec who seriously wants to have a chance to make it to 400, what kind of studying would they have to do? What tools would they need?

currently doing it on party

of course it's doable. still will take time and effort

microgaming is best rake wise

Holdem Manager or PT + pokerjuice + some good reads + videos + personell coaching.... and Maybe 500 hours of hard work away from the tables. This sounds like realistic for me. Can be much more or much. Depends on your background and your abilities...

Aside from the personal coaching, I'm already using Holdem Manager and Poker juice. Been watching the Jnandez87 bankroll challenge which has helped alot too.
What good reads do you suggest? And what other work needs to be done off the tables?

I agree 100%. Grind and play more tables

Rake is killing PLO online games. I wouldn't try to climb the stakes. There are only some few peoples on the planet who can do this these days with a lot of talent, work ethic, tilt resistance, the right mindset, coaching, good bankrollmanagement and mental/psychical strenght.
But for the "normal" people like you and me the way is just closed and anything else is a big illusion and dream. (see also my 3k post about this topic).
You can't say you can achieve everything, if you really want.Thats a big lie.
This lie just try to keep the hope alive but in poker there is no hope.
Poker is teaching you about the reality. Poker is one of the most difficult things to master in the long run and its nothing what you can do for long time without heart and passion for the game.
If you don't have the abilitys and the right mindset to master the game you will fail. You will fail over and over again because you have leaks in your game, in your mindset. And leaks are not something what you can fix over night. For me poker is a big teacher about my weakness for example.
Weakness is something what you can't fix in days, weeks or months.Weakness is inside you. Its your personality and you can't change your personality.

Just because you fail, please don't instil that attitude on others

99% are the others..Maybe 1% are winningplayer online without rakeback.

People should really stop crying and start working! The games are not like back in 2010, but still really good and beatable - even though the rake is insane.

Last months on Stars:

I agree Grethe. There's no easy, quick way. You have to put in the work for anything

EDIT: Nice graph btw

+1

Willing to put in the work. Just Wanna know what needs to be done.

That's the curious thing about poker. A lot of ego, a lot of talk, a lot of posturing, but very little actual real advice on how to improve your game. Sample sizes of 50k hands are almost meaningless. Luck is a huge factor (bigger than most want to admit) in poker and you will find yourself on a normal bell curve for luck even in the sample size of a lifetime unless you're playing a million hands a year for 20 years sorta thing. In the sample size of a lifetime there will be a certain few players who run extremely good a certain few who run extremely bad and a lot who run slightly bad and slightly good.

No player will ever actually reach the long run in this game despite every decision being made towards that end. It's also extremely fuzzy guesswork making decisions a lot of the time which further blurs the line between luck and skill. A lot of variance is hidden and imperceptible which yet further makes it a difficult game to analyze.

There are some very real things you can do to improve your game (exploiting player types, preflop card selection, position and relative position, mindset and tilt control etc) but never forget you're always doing a little gambling and even playing near perfect to maximize expected value can lose over millions of hands (years of playing).

Basic game theory using basic high school math. Poker is very simple. Put in tons of time getting to know the equity distributions in all the standard spots. Figure out hand selection preflop. Know the effect of card removal. Figure out what parts of your range should be bets and raises as a bluff, semi bluff or value, which parts should be checked, which parts should be folded and most importantly: figure out why! (But trust me, its simpel game theory and simple math). At small stakes huge steps toward winning can be taken by building a good HUD and knowing how to use it. There is literally hundreds of important stats that can be used to exploiting both fun players and weak unbalanced regs. Last but not least: table and game selection. Play enough to know enough about your own relative skills to know when you sit in a very good game and when you dont.

Said it before and will say it again. Anyone who has the time to put in the work can beat PLO100 and below for +5bb/100 and also +10bb/100. Its not hard and quite a few players do it. But put in the work, play a ton, drop your ego, and most important of all: drop any notion about what you think is good poker - always keep an open mind to ideas that may sound silly to you at first.

Thing is tho: You need a lot of time.

I like part of what you wrote , but few parts are wrong.

You can change . Everyone can change . Off course there's a limit , but people can change .

How is it dead while few guys have more than 10bb winrate ?

What "kills" poker are this guys making more than 10bb. It's sharks who crush the game the reason you and others fail, it's not the rake.

Ps nice graph guys ! By the way I thought Charlie was grethe lol

This statement is 100% wrong. Firstly, we all know that rake is the major problem atm. Secondly, success isn't given, it is earned. You can`t blame others for your own failures.

Who is "we" ? Anyone who says rake is the biggest problem don't have a clue about poker . I'm not saying rake isn't abusive , I agree rake is huge, I'm saying this is not major problem . It's what most players that fail at poker like to blame others for their own failures. They don't like to admit "I suck , I can't beat other players in small stakes ", they say rake or bots or whatever .

The higher the stakes , smaller a rake . the highest stakes still the hardest stakes to beat .

Did you see oink and grethe graphs ? How rake is a major problem when players are winning at that big win rate ? Ask them , what's the biggest problem: abusive rake or very good players ? It's obvious , the stakes they play answer this question . (I play the same stakes )

People with brains.
First of all there`s very few `very good` players at PLO100. What you are saying is that good players doesnt deserve to win even more. That somehow they are some kind of a problem. There`s always somebody who is better than others that doesn`t mean poker site should ban the person. Some people win, some lose. Last time I checked that`s nature of poker. We are all competing against each other. Thats no issue, thats reality!

Lol people with brains . what is ridiculous is how reply , like it's obvious what you say and who disagree is brain dead.

When I said good players doesn't deserve to win even more ? I said rake is abusive , it's not fair ... What I said is rake isn't the major reason poker is hard nowadays. The major reason is the players being too good. The best pros reach a very high level and force good players to play smaller games . Plus laws exclude few countrys, fishs don't play and some pros get new place to keep playing.

That being said , small/medium stakes still tons of money flying there . In my opinion poker still simple like oink said . The fact that isn't ridiculous easy like it was 5y ago doesn't means it's dead .

I agree with last sentence, Poker is a gane querer que all competing against each other.

I think the ability to figure out and articulate "WHY" is what separates winning players from losing ones.

That's the thing. When you're playing in the micros, you don't have the luxury of table selection because at some point to going to have to face better players due to lack of tables.

Some people just don't understand than to be sucessful in poker the is more than master the technical aspects of the game..The is a psychical/mental aspect in the game that has a heavy influence of your performance..Tilt resistance for example is something you can fix over night or with hard work...Another aspect is to stay mental stable during a downswing..
People say here if your work hard you can get it. But its just not true for every one.Like in sports not everybody can make it to the olympic games..
I could/can beat soft PLO100 Games online with 1 or 2 fish on a table..but I can't beat my self to stay the whole year mental/psychical clear in my mind and to play my A game all the time to have/gain a edge on the good regs...I know me and my weakness and chose to play live in a more softly environment.