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River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice? River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice?

07-24-2020 , 05:43 AM
PokerStars - $0.05 PL Hi FAST (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 223.4 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 104.8 BB
Hero (UTG): 234.2 BB
MP: 173.8 BB
CO: 131.8 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has T 8 Q Q

Hero raises to 3.4 BB, MP calls 3.4 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (8.2 BB, 2 players) 5 Q 7
Hero bets 6 BB, MP calls 6 BB

Turn: (20.2 BB, 2 players) K
Hero bets 14 BB, MP calls 14 BB

River: (48.2 BB, 2 players) 6
Hero checks, MP bets 21 BB, Hero calls 21 BB

MP shows 8 A 9 J (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 43%, Flop 36%, Turn 28%)
Hero mucks T 8 Q Q (Flush, Queen High)
(Pre 57%, Flop 64%, Turn 73%)
MP wins 86.6 BB

Villain is pretty much unknown with about 25 hands.
Initially I didn't think too much of the river decision, only debating whether or not to c/c or c/f, given that villain floated two streets with a hand that's more weighted towards NFD/2NFD than wraps.
I would have folded if my flush was J high btw.

Anyway I was thinking instead of going with c/c on river for 21bb I instead could have bet around 16-17bb with the intention to b/f to a raise (since I'm pretty much always beat given that I don't think an opponent floats twice with the intention of utilizing a NF blocker).
River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice? Quote
07-27-2020 , 02:19 PM
anyone like a turn c/r here? i'm always a bit split in these spots because the board is very draw heavy and smarter villain's will check behind for a free card, but when they do bet, a c/r works well for both protection and potential value.
River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice? Quote
07-28-2020 , 02:49 AM
I never considered a c/r on the turn tbh.
However I do like it, it gives me a lot more leverage as well giving how deep we are. Obviously it's a risky strategy given that for the most times people play very passive with draws. But as stated I treated the player as an unknown, and as a default I probably wouldn't be going with a c/r on a drawy board.
River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice? Quote
07-28-2020 , 04:08 AM
Stacks can be quite awkward for a turn xr depending on villain sizing, putting hero in many unfavorable spots on rivers when called, while we can still jam if villain raises our turn lead.
River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice? Quote
07-28-2020 , 07:16 AM
Turn c/r is good with a read that villain bets too wide in this position but the average player doesn't anymore and will favour pot control in this spot.

Plus because you have QQ including the Q clubs it makes it harder for villain to have a lot of hands like KQ that will bet.

River: in theory you check this hand to protect your non-flushes OTR, and I think that's fine. It's not huge value to bet anyway because opponent don't always call straights and worse flushes but will always call/raise better ones.

Betting is more exploitative and you should do if your opponent doesn't bet worse flushes himself but calls them, and they also need to call off straights here. They also need to never bluff when you check, though tbf this is a hard river for opponent to have a hand they can and will turn into a bluff.
River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice? Quote
07-30-2020 , 03:27 AM
First of all thanks a lot for the replies - I'm new to the site so the help is much appreciated!

I'm still developing my level of multi-street planning - as stated I had villain as an unknown so c/r OTT probably would only be my strategy with a read of villain floats flops too wide IP with the intention of stealing on a later street.

On the river: I obviously didn't think of the entirety of villains betting (value and bluffing) range versus calling range when I asked the question - But given villains range is so flush heavy could there be made an argument for folding the 3rd nut flush against an unknown?
River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice? Quote
07-30-2020 , 06:25 AM
No one up for a flop c/r?
River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice? Quote
07-31-2020 , 07:58 PM
You gotta bet the turn bigger, man.

River b/f is my default. If you're checking it's too evaluate his timing and sizing, if you're making a decision before he gets, it's how much you're willing to call. Add played I call vs this sizing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loctus
No one up for a flop c/r?
Without other information I don't think we can rely on a bet often enough and without a dynamic it turns our hand somewhat face-up.
River decision between b/f, c/c or c/f with 3rd NF v. villain floating twice? Quote

      
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