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Small Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 1/2 and below pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 11-11-2017, 03:47 AM   #1
MartinK1979
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PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

UTG: is a 29/18 reg over 1.4k hands. EP VPIP is 20%
SB and BB are 64/35 and 75/15 over 60 hands and they are going all the way. It is a crazy action table.
After UTG isoreraise: Our decission is to get it in or to fold preflop. We are probably behind vs. UTG range and he has some of our cards in his range like AKxx, AQxx and of course AAxx hands. He blocks also our str8 possibility But we need 25% equity here vs. 3 and more people right?
Is folding for 100BB pre ok here? If we are 200BB or more deep can we call here?
(didn't feel a dream flop is coming...)

    Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37869121

    SB: $115.48 (231 bb)
    BB: $39.98 (80 bb)
    UTG: $68.56 (137.1 bb)
    Hero (MP): $50.49 (101 bb)
    CO: $90.38 (180.8 bb)
    BTN: $6.83 (13.7 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is MP with Q K J K
    UTG raises to $1.75, Hero calls $1.75, CO calls $1.75, BTN raises to $6.83 and is all-in, SB calls $6.58, BB calls $6.33, UTG raises to $37.65, 2 folds, SB calls $30.82, BB calls $30.82

    Flop: ($123.28) 4 K 8 (4 players, 1 is all-in)
    SB bets $77.83, BB calls $2.33 and is all-in, UTG calls $30.91 and is all-in

    Turn: ($187.43) 5 (4 players, 3 are all-in)
    River: ($187.43) J (4 players, 3 are all-in)

    Spoiler:



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

    Last edited by MartinK1979; 11-11-2017 at 03:56 AM.
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    Old 11-11-2017, 04:17 AM   #2
    mustberigged
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    Yea, I like the fold.

    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    KcJcKdQh23.05% 132,95710,806
    AKK, AA, AKQ32.44% 188,37512,683
    30%22.28% 127,79511,861
    30%22.23% 127,45211,946

    I disregarded the shortie AI, since we're not concerned about our equity against him but our equity in the side pot. The blinds need to have like 80% ranges in order for the stack off to be good. And what makes it even worse is that the utg range is likely very heavily weighted towards AA.
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    Old 11-11-2017, 06:23 AM   #3
    rulaZ
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    I like the call.

    €: This doesn't consider the BTN being short, but also considers the blinds having solid ranges. I definitely think it's close though

    Last edited by rulaZ; 11-11-2017 at 06:30 AM.
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    Old 11-11-2017, 01:36 PM   #4
    Purasevic
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rulaZ View Post
    I like the call.

    €: This doesn't consider the BTN being short, but also considers the blinds having solid ranges. I definitely think it's close though
    Is this monker solver?Does it suggests call even if we know utg has AA?

    I like how you played hand Martin.200bb deep I think it`s easy call.

    Also if utg just calls shorty`s raise I think reraise would be optimal.
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    Old 11-12-2017, 05:21 PM   #5
    VeggieBoy
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rulaZ View Post
    I like the call.

    €: This doesn't consider the BTN being short, but also considers the blinds having solid ranges. I definitely think it's close though
    whats the name of the programme you used to analyze the hand?
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    Old 11-12-2017, 06:09 PM   #6
    Formula409
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by VeggieBoy View Post
    whats the name of the programme you used to analyze the hand?
    MonkerSolver
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    Old 11-13-2017, 08:30 AM   #7
    Loctus
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    Are you up or down money on the sesh?
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    Old 11-13-2017, 10:31 AM   #8
    MartinK1979
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    hehe @loctus.
    I was a up I guess. So I was not gambling this time...
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    Old 11-13-2017, 08:29 PM   #9
    SolarAU
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    This is usually a good spot to make a solid fold with KK. Sure you're fine getting this hand in against some of the shorties but when you're 100bbs+ deep against a range that is pretty much only AAxx you should fold given how much of an equity dog you will be heads up vs AA let alone multi way.
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    Old 11-13-2017, 08:37 PM   #10
    benoit1616
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    I agree that this is a fold wp


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    Old 11-13-2017, 08:42 PM   #11
    blakkkat
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    Wow,that flop :'(

    Imo its totally dependent on how "gambly" you feel and how much edges you think you got on them overall.

    Yeah,prolly reg UTG has AAxx and vs that you behind,but if the droolers are calling jams w Axxx hands then they are blocking him and your equity goes up.Not to mention that your hand is smooth and connected enough that even against a crappy AAxx youre not doing terrible.

    If you think its an absolute waste of EV to be involved in anykind of gamble with those guys cause they are so bad that you gonna stack them anyways for sure in other,safer spots then ok,fold.

    Personally if its 4ways,the 2 guys are retards and maybe im down or even,ill take the gamble,since there will be extreme value if you get deep with a fish on future hands.
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    Old 11-14-2017, 01:15 PM   #12
    sauhund
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by blakkkat View Post
    Wow,that flop :'(

    Imo its totally dependent on how "gambly" you feel and how much edges you think you got on them overall.

    Yeah,prolly reg UTG has AAxx and vs that you behind,but if the droolers are calling jams w Axxx hands then they are blocking him and your equity goes up.Not to mention that your hand is smooth and connected enough that even against a crappy AAxx youre not doing terrible.

    If you think its an absolute waste of EV to be involved in anykind of gamble with those guys cause they are so bad that you gonna stack them anyways for sure in other,safer spots then ok,fold.

    Personally if its 4ways,the 2 guys are retards and maybe im down or even,ill take the gamble,since there will be extreme value if you get deep with a fish on future hands.
    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    600,000 trials (Randomized)
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    KcKsQcJh35.98% 215,8920
    AA7264.02% 384,1080

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    600,000 trials (Randomized)
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    100%36.17% 215,5272,942
    AA7263.83% 381,5312,942

    people need to realize how ****ty a hand KK is against exactly AA. Being "smooth and connected" looks and sounds good, but against exactly AA? garbage.
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    Old 11-16-2017, 01:51 AM   #13
    JobRunsBetter
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sauhund;
    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    600,000 trials (Randomized)

    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    KcKsQcJh35.98% 215,8920
    AA7264.02% 384,1080



    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    600,000 trials (Randomized)

    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    100%36.17% 215,5272,942
    AA7263.83% 381,5312,942



    people need to realize how ****ty a hand KK is against exactly AA. Being "smooth and connected" looks and sounds good, but against exactly AA? garbage.


    Wow. Talk about eye opening
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    Old Yesterday, 11:46 AM   #14
    mustberigged
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rulaZ View Post
    I like the call.

    €: This doesn't consider the BTN being short, but also considers the blinds having solid ranges. I definitely think it's close though
    Classic misuse of solvers. gg
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    Old Yesterday, 12:54 PM   #15
    MartinK1979
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    I have heard in one of the videos of Doug with JNandez how he is explain the monkey solver for PLO and how much benefit it is for the GTO game. But I still can't see hot you can calculate the perfekt range of everybody at the table if people play some crappy hands some of the time and made also still a lot of mistakes pre and postflop...
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    Old Yesterday, 07:06 PM   #16
    Purasevic
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    Re: PLO50 KKQJss in EP preflopaction, do we fold?

    I would say that for beating micros you definitely don`t need monker solver.
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