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PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play?

11-06-2017 , 10:27 AM
Villian is 64/36 over 50 hands
I did a small 3bet pre. Do you like it?
flop: Standart c-bet?
Turn: lead out or going for c/r , c/c , betting pot on the turn, better than my 60% potsize bet?
River: Do you like my v-bet size?

    Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37864785

    CO: $50 (100 bb)
    BTN: $50 (100 bb)
    Hero (SB): $91.50 (183 bb)
    BB: $50 (100 bb)
    UTG: $61.81 (123.6 bb)
    MP: $111.46 (222.9 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with K A Q J
    UTG folds, MP raises to $1.75, 2 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB folds, MP calls $2.25

    Flop: ($8.50) Q 6 T (2 players)
    Hero bets $4.04, MP raises to $8.08, Hero calls $4.04

    Turn: ($24.66) A (2 players)
    Hero bets $14, MP calls $14

    River: ($52.66) 2 (2 players)
    Hero bets $20, MP calls $20

    Spoiler:
    Results: $92.66 pot ($2 rake)
    Final Board: Q 6 T A 2
    Hero showed K A Q J and won $90.66 ($44.58 net)
    MP mucked A 9 3 A and lost (-$46.08 net)



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    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-06-2017 , 10:41 AM
    Omg my eyes are bleeding.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-06-2017 , 10:48 AM
    If you are going to 3bet, 3bet pot.
    Don't mind flop check or bet, either way, we're not going anywhere.
    I don't think your turn bet can ever be balanced.. If you are bluffing in this spot, this sizing isn't going to make any of his draws fold.. should bet pot with the nuts + top 2 and with your bluffs (though I wouldn't advise bluffing this player too often).
    Edit: same comment for your river valuebet.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-06-2017 , 12:06 PM
    I agree on sizing up on the turn and river. Especially on the turn we have a very vulnerable hand with two flush draws out there.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-06-2017 , 01:46 PM
    I don't like your line at all...esp min raise 3bet (basically) and turn sizing. Screams "I have a rundown". Surprised you didn't get 4bet to Bolivia and in kind of an awkward situation.

    I would also c/c flop OOP though Cbet is fine imo. Feel like that flop hits a 3bet calling range a wee bit better than yours. Would expect a lot of JT98ds type hands. I'm bombing the turn to charge any flush draw/wrap combo then river bet almost full pot if not whole pot expecting to get get calls from sets, lesser 2 pair etc especially with Vs stats..tho lolsample. Couldn't ask for a better runout tbh. gii.

    But wtf do I know lol.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-06-2017 , 04:04 PM
    I was 3betting thats small for information...4bet means most of the time AAxx..So I can play better postfloo knowing it...I like my hand but I don't like my position against this kind of villians...So I try to keep the pot small every street I play...I am not looking for the best and most +EV..I try to play some kind of smallball oop to minimise my losses..I know thats not GTO or optimal advice at all but thats my own way atm at this stakes..I try to figure out what is the optimal betsizing that he is for sure calling and not what I should bet because of GTO.
    Maybe thats what I should working on.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-06-2017 , 05:18 PM
    Betting for information is like 2000 poker. That's not a valid reason for betting. You can either bet to get worse hands to fold or better to call. In this case you 3-bet because your ahead of MPs range for value. A side effect of this is, the smaller the SPR is postflop, the easier it is to play.

    If you want to play to just minimize your losses then what's the point of betting at all. Just limp or hit the call button, don't push equity. The only sizing for a bet preflop should almost always be pot. One of the few exceptions is abusing a shorstacker and making sure they can reopen action.

    You actually want a fold preflop, that is going to be one of your better outcomes. Let's say MP is a complete whale and playing very very wide.

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    600,000 trials (Randomized)
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    AcKcQsJs59.73% 350,12016,569
    70%40.27% 233,31116,569

    He still has the equity to call your 3-bet no matter your sizing. If he folds you are making more money than if he calls. You make 6.5bb in this spot if he folds, put that over 100 hands and 650bb/100. Let's say for the ease of use in this he calls and no betting happens after so no positional disadvantage. There is 8.5 in the middle and You win 60% of the time, so you get 5.1 over the long run. We then subtract that from your money invested, which is about $4 and you end up winning $1 which is 2 bb. You are making 200bb/100 in this spot if they call.

    The more you raise pre the more you make in the long-run and if they fold you typically should be doing happy dances around the table and not being sad.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-06-2017 , 05:49 PM
    Keep in mind that when you 3bet small `for information` you re also giving information.

    You `re saying to your opponent `I don't have aa and I just want to see do you have them`.When I see this kind of play I usually insta 4bet no matter do I have aa or some rundown.Flop cbet is fine,c/c also.Turn sizing must be bigger.River sizing is debatable,but
    I would prefer 2/3 of the pot at least.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-06-2017 , 06:15 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Purasevic
    Keep in mind that when you 3bet small `for information` you re also giving information.

    You `re saying to your opponent `I don't have aa and I just want to see do you have them`.When I see this kind of play I usually insta 4bet no matter do I have aa or some rundown.Flop cbet is fine,c/c also.Turn sizing must be bigger.River sizing is debatable,but
    I would prefer 2/3 of the pot at least.
    This is basically what I was getting at.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-06-2017 , 07:58 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Darkfangs
    Betting for information is like 2000 poker. That's not a valid reason for betting. You can either bet to get worse hands to fold or better to call. In this case you 3-bet because your ahead of MPs range for value. A side effect of this is, the smaller the SPR is postflop, the easier it is to play.

    If you want to play to just minimize your losses then what's the point of betting at all. Just limp or hit the call button, don't push equity. The only sizing for a bet preflop should almost always be pot. One of the few exceptions is abusing a shorstacker and making sure they can reopen action.

    You actually want a fold preflop, that is going to be one of your better outcomes. Let's say MP is a complete whale and playing very very wide.

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    600,000 trials (Randomized)
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    AcKcQsJs59.73% 350,12016,569
    70%40.27% 233,31116,569

    He still has the equity to call your 3-bet no matter your sizing. If he folds you are making more money than if he calls. You make 6.5bb in this spot if he folds, put that over 100 hands and 650bb/100. Let's say for the ease of use in this he calls and no betting happens after so no positional disadvantage. There is 8.5 in the middle and You win 60% of the time, so you get 5.1 over the long run. We then subtract that from your money invested, which is about $4 and you end up winning $1 which is 2 bb. You are making 200bb/100 in this spot if they call.

    The more you raise pre the more you make in the long-run and if they fold you typically should be doing happy dances around the table and not being sad.
    Thanks.Great post.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-07-2017 , 08:53 AM
    Pre is horrid

    Without getting too much into the turn sizing, I think there is a pretty good case for bombing the river when we use the smallish continuation, I'm not sure hero has enough bluffing hands for the small sizing to be optimal
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-07-2017 , 11:10 AM
    Agree, river should be bombed
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-08-2017 , 06:05 AM
    You've got some really informative posts above that cover the main mistakes in this hand which are bet sizings pre-flop, turn and river.

    But if you take anything out of this thread, let it be this. Never bet for information.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-08-2017 , 11:23 AM
    that sizing seems pretty gay.

    and yeah, you said it yourself, itīs not optimal what you are doing here. minimizing losses canīt be your nr1 priority.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-12-2017 , 10:09 PM
    Villian was getting 37% on the turn. You gave him excellent odds to call your turn bet.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote
    11-13-2017 , 02:17 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CJ72
    Villian was getting 37% on the turn.
    This is a weird way of saying he needed 26.6% equity to call.
    PLO50 AKQJss in SB. A little deep. How to play? Quote

          
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