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[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop [PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop

12-04-2017 , 07:42 PM
I consider SB a decent aggressive reg.

PokerStars - $2 PL Hi FAST (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 244.86 BB
SB: 141.65 BB (VPIP: 30.21, PFR: 20.22, 3Bet Preflop: 10.54, Hands: 843)
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 121.38 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 11.96, 3Bet Preflop: 5.71, Hands: 521)
Hero (MP): 1547.39 BB
CO: 402.36 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 4 7 3 6

fold, Hero raises to 3.5 BB, CO calls 3.5 BB, BTN calls 3.5 BB, SB calls 3 BB, fold

Flop: (15 BB, 4 players) 3 8 5
SB checks, Hero bets 10.83 BB, fold, BTN calls 10.83 BB, SB raises to 57.57 BB, Hero ?

I'm not quite sure what the correct play is, here, however, I think we either need to repot, or fold?
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-04-2017 , 08:00 PM
If SB's range is typical then it willl be made up of a lot of overpairs and A type hands with with clubs here. KKXXcc ETC AK8Xcc etc

Saying that - with the straight outs two pair outs and backdoor flush outs im finding a fold very hard here. Good chance your club outs are probably dead here and if hes not folding then calling here and seeing what drops on the turn isnt bad. Allows you to fold on turn to a club shove if you think he'll play like this.

However with the SPR< 1 you're probably stacking off so if that the case then just GII.
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-04-2017 , 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucaspawpaw16
If SB's range is typical then it willl be made up of a lot of overpairs and A type hands with with clubs here. KKXXcc ETC AK8Xcc etc

Saying that - with the straight outs two pair outs and backdoor flush outs im finding a fold very hard here. Good chance your club outs are probably dead here and if hes not folding then calling here and seeing what drops on the turn isnt bad. Allows you to fold on turn to a club shove if you think he'll play like this.

However with the SPR< 1 you're probably stacking off so if that the case then just GII.
It's hard to make two pair with our hand though
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-04-2017 , 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha90
It's hard to make two pair with our hand though

ha of course
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-04-2017 , 10:59 PM
It looks like I have lots of to learn about PLO

I would fold pre

As played being 4way with 2 players behind I might check this on the flop.
In theory this board should not hit utg/mp open range.
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-04-2017 , 11:51 PM
Ok to open from button but yesa should fold pre in that position.

Also OP - I just checked the hnsad again and with button flatting i feel you have to GII to push out weak flush draws etc. Calling puts you in a very tricky spot so its shoeve or fold here
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-05-2017 , 01:20 AM
Just ship it, its not an amazing spot but we are too strong to fold, if btn is going to play we mostly prefer the stacks get in on the flop
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-05-2017 , 09:57 AM
If you repot it would be super hard for btn to continue with most of the hands against

2 players. Usually sb`range for check/raising this is often some made hand,

so i would go with this.Specially if you have 1500bb,that means you run too good.
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-05-2017 , 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purasevic
If you repot it would be super hard for btn to continue with most of the hands against

2 players. Usually sb`range for check/raising this is often some made hand,

so i would go with this.Specially if you have 1500bb,that means you run too good.
Think I was running under Ev for the day actually
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-05-2017 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Purasevic
Usually sb`range for check/raising this is often some made hand, so i would go with this.
Flawed logic in the way your presented it, but I"m going to assume that what you're referring to is the fact that our hand might play well against many hands that SB would decide to CR with. The idea of pushing into a "made" hand in itself is not a profitable measure by any means unless of course we know the math behind our outs.

OP, run some numbers against the types of hands that villain would CR with (or what you would check raise that board with): sets , over pair + FD, 67xx with FD, 2 pair + FD, pair + SD or wrap, two pair + SD etc. and see where your hand comes out. Without much info on villain, it seems like we're in a lot of coin flip situations.

Calling the flop to see a turn might be fine, but we should have an idea of what we're doing when certain cards come out. If we're folding when the board pairs or if a club comes out (because we think villain has a higher FD) or if we miss our straight, we might as well just fold now. If we are only folding when the board pairs, or not at all and are willing to see the river regardless, we might as well just get it in now.

Hand and flop look very pretty together, the reality of our hand vs a villain who is check raising, might not be so pretty.
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-05-2017 , 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DingusEgg
Flawed logic in the way your presented it, but I"m going to assume that what you're referring to is the fact that our hand might play well against many hands that SB would decide to CR with. The idea of pushing into a "made" hand in itself is not a profitable measure by any means unless of course we know the math behind our outs.

OP, run some numbers against the types of hands that villain would CR with (or what you would check raise that board with): sets , over pair + FD, 67xx with FD, 2 pair + FD, pair + SD or wrap, two pair + SD etc. and see where your hand comes out. Without much info on villain, it seems like we're in a lot of coin flip situations.

Calling the flop to see a turn might be fine, but we should have an idea of what we're doing when certain cards come out. If we're folding when the board pairs or if a club comes out (because we think villain has a higher FD) or if we miss our straight, we might as well just fold now. If we are only folding when the board pairs, or not at all and are willing to see the river regardless, we might as well just get it in now.

Hand and flop look very pretty together, the reality of our hand vs a villain who is check raising, might not be so pretty.
I think this range contains most of what villain will C/R with here:

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: 385
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
4s6s3c7c53.93% 320,3146,575
88**,33**,55**,Ac*c,567846.07% 273,1116,575
It surprises me that we're actually ahead of this range. Would you exclude or include some hands in this range? I don't think there's a lot of overpairs with clubs in his range, the ones he have I think is covered by the Ac*c**. Perhaps the range is even to nitty, he might include 67** with 2 clubs, added it to the range

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: 385
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
4s6sAc7c56.60% 330,43218,366
88**,33**,55**,Ac*c,5678,67:cc43.40% 251,20218,366

If my ranges aren't completely off I guess we don't love our hand, but we have to GII.
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-05-2017 , 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DingusEgg
The idea of pushing into a "made" hand in itself is not a profitable measure by any means unless of course we know the math behind our outs.
The main point of pushing into a made hand is to make btn fold higher flushdraw.Against set we are favorite here.

Also range you gave to sb for c/raising 2 players that includes: pair +str draw,

67 +fd can not be good really.
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-06-2017 , 06:39 PM
jam > call > fold. Don't really agree with "shove or fold" because folding is never right -- if you have to do something other than going all in, calling would be better than folding.
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote
12-14-2017 , 04:17 AM
fist pump.
[PLO200]Pair, Wrap and FD facing squeeze on the flop Quote

      
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