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Plo200:I need to call river, right? Plo200:I need to call river, right?

12-17-2018 , 03:27 PM
Recently got back in to plo, pretty sure I butchered this hand massively.

Hero (SB) 225bb JT98
BB 290bb
CO 400bb

UTG fold, CO pot, BTN fold, Hero Call, SB pot, CO and Hero call

Flop (pot 42bb) 59J
Checked around

Turn (pot 42bb) 6
Hero check, BB check CO bet 37bb, Hero call, BB fold

River (116bb) 6
Hero check, CO bet 37bb, Hero??

I felt the stacksize was akward for a 3bet preflop, playing it OOP, as I didnt expect CO to fold.

On the flop I was going for the CR. But this may be a big leak, I feel the hand gets checked through way too often.

Turn puts a straight on the board, where I do hold a blocker, check-calling seemed obvious?

River he stabs small. Had he flopped a set, he would most likely have bet the flop, so Im expecting either a bluff, or A6/J6/96/56. If he hold an overpair (hence better 2 pair than mine), I think he would either check it back, or perhaps have 4bet it preflop
Given the price I need to call this always, right?

Please berate me on all streets
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-18-2018 , 01:40 AM
i think your probably right about pre, IP i think this hand could be 3b pre profitably

your blocking that turned straight, but your also blokcing hearts. i think a lot of this depends on the CO tendencies and how much credibility he has. the fact that he choses the same 37bb sizing on the river seems favorable, and kindof suggests that he is a weak player

overall i think you just need to take an aggressive option on the flop or turn, X'ing this hand across multiple streets is not advised. so how did the hand finish?
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-18-2018 , 02:03 AM
Fold river. You are beating nothing. What abou aa, kk, qq and 786 combos? No good player is betting aj here after betting the str8 on turn.
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-18-2018 , 04:57 AM
a) bet flop instead of checking unless against very aggressive bunch
b) if not betting flop raise turn
c) if not raising turn fold river unless very bluffy bettor (then reconsider)
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-18-2018 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble
raise the turn
Had we been more shallow, I would have raised turn, but was unsure this deep.

Doing the math, since I got 40% vs set/straight, I should have raised. I thought I would be in much worse shape, with only 1 card to come.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjou812
Fold river. You are beating nothing. What abou aa, kk, qq and 786 combos? No good player is betting aj here after betting the str8 on turn.
AA I think he would 4b pre, and dont expect people to VB KK/QQ here, but I could be wrong?

Im obviously beating a bunch of busted draws.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FellaGaga-52
a) bet flop instead of checking unless against very aggressive bunch
b) if not betting flop raise turn
c) if not raising turn fold river unless very bluffy bettor (then reconsider)
a) agree
b) agree, as noted above
c) I felt it was a very good bluffing spot for him, as the weak way I played my hand, I had signaled I had nothing. I only have to be good 25%

Last edited by Beck; 12-18-2018 at 10:58 AM.
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-18-2018 , 11:10 AM
Quote:
c) I felt it was a very good bluffing spot for him, as the weak way I played my hand, I had signaled I had nothing. I only have to be good 25%
20%
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-18-2018 , 11:47 AM
Shove river

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Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-18-2018 , 04:26 PM
As played, I would suggest betting turn

As played, despite the price, you do not need to call, villain can easily have overpairs, trips, and a much smaller number of boats. I do not expect villain to have much on the way of worse hands than that (bluffs).

Because of this xr with blockers to the nut boat and straight, could easily be more profitable than call.

Of course, determining the proper bluff frequency with a hand like yours is complicated.
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-18-2018 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beck
AA I think he would 4b pre, and dont expect people to VB KK/QQ here, but I could be wrong?
I agree, with your logic but some guys won't lay down bad AAxx but don't raise 'em either. Some guys don't think bad AAxx hands exist and raise them regardless of connectivity.

I agree with you that the price looks like a decent price to call but since its the same as the turn bet, my guess is he had the straight, he hated the river but was determined to still bet it given all the passivity and would only fold to a large raise. I fold or bluff, and most likely fold because bluffing in PLO on the river is costly and futile.
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-19-2018 , 07:11 AM
I don’t think we ever have the best hand so would rather check raise river than check call : ) I think this could be one of the best handsyou have at the river to do it with, blocking boats, straights and not blocking any overpairs..
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-20-2018 , 03:25 PM
I would have led this flop for sure in a 3! pot, especially multi-way. We have really good equity vs even top set (which we block), so I would take the line with the least FE and try and GII if possible.

AP, you certainly can't call the river. Q is if you can CR pot and get him to lay down overpairs. High variance for sure, but he isn't repping all that much on that runout and his bet sizing seems weal to me.
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-21-2018 , 03:29 AM
Yes, not leading the flop was a mistake. Unfortunately a mistake, I seem to be making over and over, going for the CR, in spots where it will be checked through too often.

Admittedly, I never even considered raising the river.
As stated earlier, I dont really see him VB-ing overpairs, but may be a flaw in my own game, Im assigning to him as well. If he do hold an overpair though, I would fully expect him to lay it down.
But since you are unsure whether he would lay down an overpair, a straight would be a snapcall for him, in your opinion?
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-22-2018 , 09:24 AM
Your range on the turn should be pretty tight to such a large bet on a wet board.

Roughly, it should be combos of sets/wraps/fds/made straights.

We need a strategy for this river and we cannot just jam boats and fold everything else. Something reasonable could be to check/call our slowplayed straights, and low boats 66655 and 55566, jam our strong boats, fold our missed wraps and fds and bluff when we hold J98.

Obv you can improve this by developing player specifics reads, but I would expect him to simply not know what to do with a straight when you shove which is a good default starting point.

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Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
12-26-2018 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beck
Yes, not leading the flop was a mistake. Unfortunately a mistake, I seem to be making over and over, going for the CR, in spots where it will be checked through too often.

Admittedly, I never even considered raising the river.
As stated earlier, I dont really see him VB-ing overpairs, but may be a flaw in my own game, Im assigning to him as well. If he do hold an overpair though, I would fully expect him to lay it down.
But since you are unsure whether he would lay down an overpair, a straight would be a snapcall for him, in your opinion?
Snapcall? No. Never a snap on a paired board with a str8 (which seems like his most likely holding to me unless he ran into quads). Again, this is very player dependent and I wouldn't check/jam versus most players because they would call. However, if V is good, then it might work as he is capable of laying down 87 in that spot.
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote
01-02-2019 , 08:28 AM
Bet flop as a default but checking reasonable moreso if we have a read that the player stabs too much ip vs a 3b and check.
Plo200:I need to call river, right? Quote

      
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