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plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot

11-06-2018 , 10:49 PM
villain is 23/15/8 with 1,3 aggression over 145 hands and he has shown that he is capable of folding postflop in a couple of hands.

we are MP with A876

Villain (31,5$) UTG open 0,35$
Hero (27,8$) MP raise 1,2$
SB (27,3$) call 1,2$
Villain 4bet 4,9$
Hero call 4,9$
SB fold

flop (11,1$)
QQ9
Villain bet 5,15$
hero call 5,15$

turn (21,4$)
K
Villain check
hero bet 10,35$

Preflop i thought we are deep enough with both the villain and the SB to call IP. Postflop i felt like with his bet sizing he wanted to deny a free card but also not commit himself. I called hoping to hit a backdoor draw and bluff the turn if he checks. Although i didn't get any equity i thought the K is the perfect card to bluff at.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-07-2018 , 05:55 AM
This isn't two cards, the king of hearts is a terrible card to "bluff at" in this situation.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-07-2018 , 06:28 AM
I dislike it. Your hand composition seems especially poor for this play, making it less likely that villain has some sort of middle run down or aces. Fold the flop.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-07-2018 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPlayingGamble
I dislike it. Your hand composition seems especially poor for this play, making it less likely that villain has some sort of middle run down or aces. Fold the flop.
does hand composition mater that much in this situation ? i am just trying to exploit a board texture that hits my range better than his.

what hand composition would be better to bluff with? are we only bluffing with TTxx or JJxx ?
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-07-2018 , 11:34 AM
Well one blocker would help

Pure bluffs generally aren't a great idea in PLO

Also I dunno why you think a heavy board hits your calling range better than his UTG range
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-07-2018 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckNorris
i am just trying to exploit a board texture that hits my range better than his.
Why do you think this is true? Are you assuming you have 10% and villain always has AA? (and even then your range is only 50% vs. AA on the flop, you have to hit this good turn for your "range to be ahead"). Also note that you block AA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckNorris
what hand composition would be better to bluff with? are we only bluffing with TTxx or JJxx ?
The problem is that even though you are deep the SPR is only 2 on the flop, villain shouldn't be folding AA. The fact villain bets smaller on the flop maybe suggests that he's got better than rando AA, because something like AA72r you'd more expect to be just potting and make life easier for itself.

You should probably be shoving or folding flop, based on equity and if he folds sometimes that's just gravy.

Turn sizing is also weird, I assume you are trying to bluff for cheap but villain can easily decide "I only need 25% equity, I guess I call" ... if he calls do you try to bluff river?

Finally being exploitative is all well and good but if any sane villain ever sees this result it's obvious you are calling flop with any4.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-07-2018 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by illiterat
Are you assuming you have 10% and villain always has AA? (and even then your range is only 50% vs. AA on the flop, you have to hit this good turn for your "range to be ahead"). Also note that you block AA.
he is a tight player and he 4b from UTG when he is very deep vs both me and the SB... i assumed that even though i block an A he always has AA... yea i guess its true i have to hit the K for my range to be ahead, i totally agree with that

Quote:
Originally Posted by illiterat
You should probably be shoving or folding flop, based on equity and if he folds sometimes that's just gravy.
i thought calling would seem equally as strong as raising but it would give me the opportunity to fold if villain bets the turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by illiterat
Turn sizing is also weird, I assume you are trying to bluff for cheap but villain can easily decide "I only need 25% equity, I guess I call" ... if he calls do you try to bluff river?
no, i wanted to outlevel the villain... i don't think that in this situation half pot or going all in makes any difference in folding equity because its effectively an all-in in villains eyes... i used this sizing to make it look like i want to make a call easier for him since he only needs 25% equity... no im not bluffing the river if i get called

Quote:
Originally Posted by illiterat
Finally being exploitative is all well and good but if any sane villain ever sees this result it's obvious you are calling flop with any4.
yea but he didn't know that... he literally has to assume i'm calling flop with air in order to assign me a 25% bluffing range

Last edited by CheckNorris; 11-07-2018 at 10:43 PM.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-07-2018 , 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do0rDoNot
Also I dunno why you think a heavy board hits your calling range better than his UTG range
yea i guess its wrong to assume that this flop is better for my range...

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: QQ9
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
10%!AA37.73% 225,3572,083
AA62.27% 372,5602,083

but after i call the flop since there are no flush draws my range should look more like this...

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: QQ9
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
10%:Q, 10%:TJ, 10%:KKT, 10%:KKJ58.25% 347,2484,502
AA41.75% 248,2504,502

its not enough but after the turned K the equity of his range vs mine becomes...

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: QQ9K
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
10%:Q, 10%:TJ, 10%:KKT, 10%:KKJ92.62% 552,8505,762
AA7.38% 41,3885,762

so the float is probably bad but after the turned Kh it should be a profitable bluff vs a thinking opponent... shouldn't it?

Last edited by CheckNorris; 11-07-2018 at 11:59 PM.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-08-2018 , 02:53 AM
Why are you holding onto this? If you have a king it's slightly better but no one folds big pots at plo 10 especially for half pot bets. he is going be trapping a fair amount with check on turn, just let it go.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-08-2018 , 04:49 AM
Floating this flop is spew. If hero bluffs, I would often delay to the river and even bluff jam over bets sometimes. Sizing on the turn is tricky, especially on a dryish board, sometimes we want to make it smaller so we have more behind on river.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-08-2018 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckNorris
yea i guess its wrong to assume that this flop is better for my range...

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: QQ9
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
10%!AA37.73% 225,3572,083
AA62.27% 372,5602,083

but after i call the flop since there are no flush draws my range should look more like this...

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
board: QQ9
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
10%:Q, 10%:TJ, 10%:KKT, 10%:KKJ58.25% 347,2484,502
AA41.75% 248,2504,502
Honestly your opponent isn't thinking too much about your range at these stakes. I'd be more worried about what your opponent has than what he thinks you have. You're not going to be running very many profitable, sophisticated bluffs vs. a population that is prone to calling too often.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-08-2018 , 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Do0rDoNot
You're not going to be running very many profitable, sophisticated bluffs vs. a population that is prone to calling too often.
Yea i have run too many bluffs that should have worked 100% of the time only to get called 100% of the time.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-08-2018 , 10:58 AM
If you are going to bluff (which you should), do it with a decent amount of equity and/or equity blockers.

The more equity you have, the more profitable your bluffs are going to be.

You can run more sophisticated bluffs when you're at a level that your opponents can be exploited by the level of sophistication.
plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote
11-08-2018 , 11:05 AM
First thought is that you are probably more +ev without this ****

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plo10 floating flop with air in a 4bet pot Quote

      
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