Hello all. Played some PLO tonight and looking for some feedback on this spot.

5/5 PLO 8 Handed 100bb effective

Hero is BB with KcQcQd2d

UTG straddles, Btn calls, SB calls, Hero Pots to 50, all call

Flop
Kd Jc, 5c

Hero leads for 100
Btn pots, SB shoves, Hero???

Reads...Btn is running hot. Seen him show down a couple of hands with bad danglers and he's raised most every pot I've seen him play. He's played about 1/3 of hands. SB and I have a decent amount of history. He's very splashy. He's pretty clueless and has pushed hard several times tonight with bottom and middle set on very connected boards. What types of ranges should I be using to run this spot? I ended up running the equity calculations for both pre and post flop on the exact hands but I'm trying to think about this in terms of ranges and how each player is likely to play this spot or if I should just go with my reads. Also, should my flop bet be 3/4 or full pot or should I be checking here?

Thanks!

Normally we run the risk of being double dominated so I'd say let it go.

With the amount invested already might justify a call

check flop. just call pre.

I'm sorry this seems like a slam dunk raise here. Can you give me a reason why?

Why does it seem like a slam dunk raise? You are just inflating pots oop with shitty suited qq. Its a 100% just a call even more so live when villians are rarely folding to 3-bets, plays like **** multi way as well..

^^^ and for OP's reasoning in the last post

We're out of position.

You have no low potential either, for another reason, and no nut suit. Loads of reasons not to pot pre with a marginal holding. You are basically hoping for a Q-high flop or to flop broadway, giving you two ways to improve. Ideally we want more ways than that.

If you think of a hand in terms of how likely you are to improve multiway to a hand that can bet into multiple ranges, this one doesn't cut it with just the Q/broadway. Maybe 15% of the time you get what you want.

Compare to a hand like AA23ds: Ax flop (12%), two nut flush draws (22% flopping either one), A2/A3 will flop a low or low draw a lot too (not sure about the %s here - not a low expert). You're looking at closer to 40%+ of having a flop you can continue on. Now that's a winning bet pre.

When I play plo5 (hi only), I strongly prefer hands that can improve several ways, not just one or two.

sry I thought User was OP, obviously. User nailed reasoning. I didn't even realize it was a hi/lo game. Raise is even worse there for reasons Dumbo pointed out.

I think you misread OP in that it is PLO eight handed, not PLO8. Do agree with others though that it is definitely only a flat pre.

You’re oop the whole hand. You have no nut draws. The 6 dramatically impacts your drawing potential. Change the 6 to a T and then this becomes raise, pot, shove.

5/5 PLO 8 Handed 100bb effective

It's 8 handed people, not PLO8. And yeah, this is not a raising hand in the BB, plays poorly multiway, OOP, and when you hit you will be second best a lot.

Edit - @uminchu, wtf there is no 6 in OP's hand. Reading is not that hard guys.

2 does an ok impression of a 6, technically we could beat K5 a bit more if we had a 6 but w/e.

What everyone else said, but also worth mentioning we block QT draws/wraps so more likely made hands and nut flush. Having both Kc and Qc is also really bad because that means the best non-nut flush they can be pushing is Tc, and they are less likely to have some combo. draw with Kc.

OP obviously there is a chance we aren't crushed, let's say it's as high as 33% of the time, but when that happens we have like 30-37% and when crushed we'll have 5-11%.

The raise pre I think comes down to how good everyone else is and how good you are - it's a check vs tough opponents and maybe a raise if you feel like you have a big edge but its a marginal QQ hand. I think this might be close to the top of my check back range on the flop - getting check/raised here sucks and you have to fold, and given you're 4 way it'll happen enough to warrant checking back.

Check pre and check/ fold flop.

This flop situation is a prime example of why this hand is a check preflop.

The fact we flop top pair and a second nut flush draw and our hand is probably absolutely dominated …. Says a lot about the hand itself. AKxxcc is all it takes for us to be drawing super thin.

i know what game this is and I still don't like raising pre