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Old 02-13-2019, 07:01 AM   #1
BenStiller69
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The Omaha mindset

So I recently made an embarrassing post confessing how badly I tilt when I lose with what was the best hand in NLHE. I came to realize that it isnt the act of losing that bothers me, it's when bad play is rewarded. I have no qualms about getting overpairs cracked by sets, TPTK losing to 2 pair, a set losing to a flush, etc. What drives me nuts is when my opponent had no business being in the hand and wins a longshot as a 5% favorite. To know that 95% of the time I should win but this time I lose my entire stack to the unlikely, just makes me want to hurt things.

So you'd thing a game like PLO would be a complete disaster for someone like me right? I'm not so sure. Again, it's not variance that bothers me, it's extremely unlikely variance that does. In a game like PLO most of the inferior draws your opponent is chasing at least make sense. If I get it allin with trips and NFD and lose to an inferior flush draw that binks bottom set I'm ok with that because at least *he thought* he had a good hand. But in NLHE nobody with 23o could think they were good on an AK2Q turn when they decided to call your jam just to spike a deuce on the river. Thats where I rage.

So I'm wondering, do you think a drawing game like PLO where the object is to make big hands rather than hope a made hand holds is a good game for me?
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Old 02-13-2019, 08:41 AM   #2
pucmo
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Re: The Omaha mindset

Mostly a poker psychology question. Maybe the bad beats are bigger in NLH or one gets used to them in PLO. Nothing holds as well in PLO and the bad as well as good runs are bigger and longer. The rest is what you know about the facts and what you think about them, like when you have stacked your opponent 10 times in a similar or so situation and then tilting when you lose it once. That is what we call a good game and smile.
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:56 PM   #3
PokerPlayingGamble
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Re: The Omaha mindset

if u tilt in nlhe then plo is not the game for u
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:40 PM   #4
+EVillain
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Re: The Omaha mindset

i think PLO is the best variant, they all have something to offer but i would encourage anyone to settle on PLO

that said, the "what were you thinking!?" tilt is extremely brutal. PLO suckouts put good regs in the hospital all the time, and leave many regs with PTSD (post tilt stress disorder)
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Old 02-13-2019, 03:40 PM   #5
BDHarrison
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Re: The Omaha mindset

This is more of a psychology question, but you need to move away from the mentality that winning is a reward. 95% is not 100%. Unlikely events occur at their mathematically predicted level in poker over the long run.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:27 PM   #6
monikrazy
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Re: The Omaha mindset

Plo would be a disaster for you. Your mindset is all ready harmful for NL.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:18 PM   #7
BenStiller69
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Plo would be a disaster for you. Your mindset is all ready harmful for NL.
I just dont like getting sucked out on. But there arent really any suckouts in PLO because it's a drawing game. You dont start with a hand like AA and pray to the poker gods that it holds. You start with a draw and hope you can improve. I guess I'll just have to give it a shot. Bought OmahaIndicator so I dont accidentally fold the nuts and Jeff Hwangs PLO intro book.
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Old 02-13-2019, 07:38 PM   #8
michaelorcharlie
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Re: The Omaha mindset

Most of the money you make in PLO come in from AAxx where you rush to GII preflop
GL
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Old 02-14-2019, 12:04 AM   #9
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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Originally Posted by BenStiller69 View Post
I just dont like getting sucked out on. But there arent really any suckouts in PLO because it's a drawing game.


Good luck. Feel free to drop by and tell us how it went.
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Old 02-14-2019, 01:35 AM   #10
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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Originally Posted by BenStiller69 View Post
I just dont like getting sucked out on. But there arent really any suckouts in PLO because it's a drawing game.
So you're telling us you prefer people getting it in correctly or close to correctly instead of getting it in badly.

This is another flavor of "moving up to where they respect my raises," but instead you're moving games to one in which people aren't making huge mistakes mathematically.

You're just avoiding the real problem, which is that instead of rejoicing that people are making exploitably bad plays, you want to have 20 to 0 results when you are a 19 to 1 favorite. I think you ought to focus on that issue instead of running from it.

What's the antidote for not being willing to pay the 1 to win the 19? If I had that answer I'd be printing money from mindset coaching. But here's my attempt. Whenever I want to say "what the **** were they thinking," I say the mantra (silently) "bad calls build big pots" then shrug and say out loud "nice hand."

Last edited by STinLA; 02-14-2019 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:12 AM   #11
BenStiller69
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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So you're telling us you prefer people getting it in correctly or close to correctly instead of getting it in badly.
I wouldnt say getting it in correctly. I believe this "equities run closer together" myth in PLO only refers to preflop scenarios. Postflop it's usually one player drawing nearly dead vs the other isnt it?

What I'm saying is I love it when players make mistakes, I just hate it when they get lucky. If players dont really "get lucky" in PLO then even if I'm a 95% favorite losing doesnt bother me.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:16 AM   #12
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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Originally Posted by BenStiller69 View Post
If players dont really "get lucky" in PLO then even if I'm a 95% favorite losing doesnt bother me.
I'm having trouble understanding why someone having 5% equity and getting there bothers you in NLHE but not PLO. Is it that somehow they were supposed to know they're a 19 to 1 dog in NLHE but not PLO?
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:44 AM   #13
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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I'm having trouble understanding why someone having 5% equity and getting there bothers you in NLHE but not PLO. Is it that somehow they were supposed to know they're a 19 to 1 dog in NLHE but not PLO?
It bothers me because when I assume they have such low equity stacks are going in, and if I lose I lose badly. I just dont like losing in that manner. It puts me in a situation where I cant fold. With Bovada you can look up opponent hole cards the next day. Half the time some fish donkjams the river into me he has air, the other times he has some completely hidden hand. This forces me into a guessing game whenever I have strong pairs of "well ****, am I beat or not? Oh well guess I gotta go with it". I hate that. In PLO it's a little more obvious. You either make your draw or miss completely.

Maybe I'm so jaded from playing in anonymous games like this where you dont really have a read on anybody. I never have the luxury of having seen an opponent donkjam a bluff before so make an easy call off or easy fold.

Last edited by BenStiller69; 02-14-2019 at 04:49 AM.
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Old 02-14-2019, 04:22 PM   #14
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Re: The Omaha mindset

I kind of understand where you’re coming from. I can handle losing a pot in PLO way better than I can in NL. Granted, I’ve played no limit twice in the last four years.
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:21 PM   #15
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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Originally Posted by BenStiller69 View Post
Half the time some fish donkjams the river into me he has air, the other times he has some completely hidden hand. This forces me into a guessing game whenever I have strong pairs of "well ****, am I beat or not? Oh well guess I gotta go with it". I hate that. In PLO it's a little more obvious. You either make your draw or miss completely.
Half the time some fish donkpots the river into me he has air, the other times he has some completely hidden flush hand. This forces me into a guessing game whenever I have strong sets/straights of "well ****, am I beat or not? Oh well guess I gotta go with it". I hate that. In NLHE it's a little more obvious. You either make your pair or miss completely.


But seriously, the solution to both problems is the same.
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Old 02-17-2019, 10:16 AM   #16
F_Ivanovic
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Re: The Omaha mindset

The only time I get a little tilted these days if I made a bad play. What my opponents do don't bother me (unless it's some stupid idiotic play in a tournament that benefits a ss and is bad for everyone else but that's why i stay away from tournaments) - if they get it in bad and suckout I generally don't care* - it means i'm playing in the right games.

*OK if it happens like 5 times where someone has a 5% suckout I would probably get tilted at that (but I'd just leave instead before i got tilted)
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Old 02-19-2019, 02:35 AM   #17
STinLA
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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it means i'm playing in the right games
This is 100% the right mindset.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:08 AM   #18
Tarheel234
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Re: The Omaha mindset

If you canít handle variance in NLH, stay away from PLO. PLO is my favorite game and is how Iíve made a living for the last 7 years, but it can rip your heart out, take a hammer, and smash it into a million tiny pieces. Honestly, if you have this psychology problem, I would focus on that, not game selection. You will never be successful at any game if you canít control your mental game. There is a much bigger edge to be had in PLO than in NLH in my opinion though, but make sure you have a very large bankroll. Bankroll management helped my mental game more than anything else because getting sucked out on lost the ability to put me on tilt due to being able to truly focus on the decision making and not the results. Best of luck
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:55 PM   #19
+EVillain
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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If you can’t handle variance in NLH, stay away from PLO. PLO is my favorite game and is how I’ve made a living for the last 7 years, but it can rip your heart out, take a hammer, and smash it into a million tiny pieces. Honestly, if you have this psychology problem, I would focus on that, not game selection. You will never be successful at any game if you can’t control your mental game. There is a much bigger edge to be had in PLO than in NLH in my opinion though, but make sure you have a very large bankroll. Bankroll management helped my mental game more than anything else because getting sucked out on lost the ability to put me on tilt due to being able to truly focus on the decision making and not the results. Best of luck
Being over-rolled is such an underrated edge. PLaying omaha with 20-50 buy ins is like crossing the high seas in a row-boat. 200 buy ins is like an cargo ship.
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Old 02-20-2019, 10:45 AM   #20
langozam
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Re: The Omaha mindset

The flaw in your mind set seems to stem from a sense of injustice. Whilst true that there's more scenarios in PLO, where equities run closer, that opponents are getting a price to draw to perceived outs, you're still going to face situations where recreational players make a call with a straight draw, incorrectly, and beat your made hand. These situations aren't bad - in the long run, they will make up a big part of your winrate, and situations like this occur much more often in PLO than holdem. As you say that you go on tilt when bad play is rewarded, as you put it, but don't when an opponents play looks to make sense, I would suggest exploring the mind set of these players, as to understand, and overcome negative emotional reactions to plays, that in the long run, win you a lot of money. The mind set, and thoughts of these types isn't going to include anything to do with equities. If they have a straight draw and call in a spot that they 'shouldn't', their thought process is more along the lines of I can win this pot if I call, if I fold, I won't. Given this, and that their objective is not to win money in the long run or make a living off the game, but to enjoy the experience and give them a greater chance to win a hand than lose, it makes logical sense to them to call. Most recreational players aren't stupid, or deluded to the point where they think they are going to profit in the long run (above certain stakes of course), they simply want to have fun. And getting lucky and giving yourself a chance to win a pot is more fun than folding. Looking at it from this perspective, maybe it will help you to let go of that sense of injustice.

Goodluck
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Old 02-21-2019, 04:06 PM   #21
MartinK1979
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Re: The Omaha mindset

Try to get the right mindset is for me like try to climb a mount everest..But I still trying and trying...maybe one day...
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Old 02-21-2019, 06:24 PM   #22
+EVillain
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Re: The Omaha mindset

if your making plays w/ positive expectation, and the numbers are in your favor, then thats a victory regardless of the outcome. you might lose the battle but the numbers prove you won the war.

ive said before: ten thousand hands from now justice will be served. PLO is a bloodbath but you just become numb to the beats.

BTW: can someone tell me why i have this red check-box in the bottom lefthand corner of my posts?



<around here, beside the exclamation point for reporting somebody
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Old 02-22-2019, 02:41 AM   #23
napsus
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Re: The Omaha mindset

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenStiller69 View Post
So I recently made an embarrassing post confessing how badly I tilt when I lose with what was the best hand in NLHE. I came to realize that it isnt the act of losing that bothers me, it's when bad play is rewarded. I have no qualms about getting overpairs cracked by sets, TPTK losing to 2 pair, a set losing to a flush, etc. What drives me nuts is when my opponent had no business being in the hand and wins a longshot as a 5% favorite. To know that 95% of the time I should win but this time I lose my entire stack to the unlikely, just makes me want to hurt things.

So you'd thing a game like PLO would be a complete disaster for someone like me right? I'm not so sure. Again, it's not variance that bothers me, it's extremely unlikely variance that does. In a game like PLO most of the inferior draws your opponent is chasing at least make sense. If I get it allin with trips and NFD and lose to an inferior flush draw that binks bottom set I'm ok with that because at least *he thought* he had a good hand. But in NLHE nobody with 23o could think they were good on an AK2Q turn when they decided to call your jam just to spike a deuce on the river. Thats where I rage.

So I'm wondering, do you think a drawing game like PLO where the object is to make big hands rather than hope a made hand holds is a good game for me?
I didn't read any of the other replies yet so pardon me if I'm repeating something but this issue is close to my heart and I'm a bit short on time but wanted to post anyways.

It's all about entitlement. You think you deserve something. In Bhagavad Gita it says "You are entitled to your labor, but not to the fruit of your labor". The Stoics tell us to control what you can and not worry about the things that cannot be controlled. Just make sure you make good decision, get the EV and in the long run good things will happen. PLO variance is way tougher than most of realize and it can feel truly disheartening and a lot of people give up.

The thing is, whether you play NLHE or PLO, just gotta take it decision by decision, street by street. Those are the things you can control. You will literally go insane unless you fix the underlying issues before you choose which game you play. Both games, but especially PLO, can mentally break you. Speaking from experience.

You gotta dig deep down, why does it bother you that someone wins a hand you were "supposed" to win 80% of the time? It's not 100%, right?

Anyone dealing with mental game issues (read: everyone), my suggestion is to get a poker journal and hand write down your thoughts after each session. If you were playing poor, try to figure out what went wrong and why. If you played well, write down what got you there, what were the things that got you playing well. If you were lucky in that session, note that you were lucky and "this too shall pass". Putting your thoughts on paper has transformative powers. This is my experience. Later.
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Old 02-22-2019, 03:16 AM   #24
MartinK1979
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Re: The Omaha mindset

nice post napsus. Thx!
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Old 02-22-2019, 01:54 PM   #25
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Re: The Omaha mindset

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BTW: can someone tell me why i have this red check-box in the bottom lefthand corner of my posts?



<around here, beside the exclamation point for reporting somebody
You don't want others to see you are online.
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