2/2 PLO live

Hero has the table covered with $3500ish. We are in utg+1 with AAJTds clubs/spades.

Btn straddle $10, sb $30 in the dark and bb $100 in the dark with only $25 behind before the cards are dealt.

Utg folds, Hero makes it $300, MP calls (the only other deep player), next to act shoves for $400, then 3 others go all in for ~$400. Bb is all in for his $125. Action isn't reopened so me and the other deep stack call. The pot is about ~$2400.

Flop - 247hhd

Hero?

MP has about ~$1800 left.

We can never bet/fold. I also don't think he's stacking off with just an overpair either. If we pot I don't see him thinking KK is good. But also if we check I don't think he jams with a naked KK either. If he had the other AA I don't think he just flats pre but I guess he could. Even though the action is wild and this guy seems like one of the better players at the table, I still have no idea if he plays a hand that could have flopped a set/2p/fd or straight draw. I mean he originally cold called $300 pre, it's hard to put him on a hand.

Even if he has any type of draw I'm not sure if he folds at this point. Is this really a spot where we want to stack off? We are pretty deep and only have a pair with no redraws. We are even an underdog/flipping with something like AKKXhh.

Although if we GII for $1800 we will be getting 1:33 odds ($1800 to win $6000) and our hand should have enough equity, we have to consider for the main pots (since someone's in for $125 and the rest $400ish) that we have to beat 6 players to take it all.

I'm not the best at playing this deep in these type of hands but IF this is the situation than if I was playing it and comfortably rolled than I would bet around 700 and gii on the turn. I do think he is more likely to gii with kk though than you would think.

With qq or kk he could be priced in that's why I don't pot it.

Do you really think he just calls $700 which is over 1/3rd of his stack? He probably knows if he calls $700 he's committing himself anyway so he likely just shoves the flop. I think he can get away from QQ or KK. I pot preflop and if I pot the flop this deep, into a dry side pot, I don't think he's putting me on JJ or QQ. He could possibly put me on a fd that he feels he's ahead of though.

I'm not sure I've been playing low stakes plo and I would think the same as you but in situations similar they'll put it in.

He does have about 1 fifth of his stack in plus the side pot. Live I've seen players put it all in in these spots to.

You have AAJT double suited. AAKK double suited often comes up as the best AA hand, but when you talk about AAxx without a second pocket pair, AAJT is often considered that best. You literally have one of the best hands possible. You have to leverage the situation as best as possible to make a huge pot preflop.

You made a technical error preflop. You should have only raised enough so that the players with about $400 putting in a re-raise would have left you the ability to re-re-raise instead of the action not being able to be reopened. Therefore your preflop raise should have been for $200 not $300. Scanning the table and knowing player's stack sizes and thinking about how much to bet so that the action can remain open when you want or closed when you want is important.

Then you would have had an already big side pot preflop with the other deep stack and on the flop the stack to pot ratio would have been so low that it would be a no brainer to get it in on the flop no matter the flop cards.

My instinct is that check is fine. With so many players all-in all ready, Hero is not very likely to win the main pot on this texture and remaining villain will be able to make good decisions against Hero shove.

Main benefit of shove is folding out some non nut heart hands and 7x hands that are worried about being dominated.

I do think its close.

I agree, it was a mistake but this is what I had been thinking.

Prior to this there was another situation where I had double suited AA and there was a straddle $5 btn, blind raise to $20 from sb, blind raise to $60 (same guy as the $125 in the posted hand but this time he's $1000 eff), I pot to $205 and I get 4 callers. 3 of them only had $400 to $600.

Since 3 of them were willing to call 1/3rd or half their stack pre before, I didn't want to basically minraise and invite the entire table to play. Although it is possible one of them could've shoved over a small raise, the only one I really didn't want to tango with was the other deep stack and he was directly to my left. So I figured a bigger sizing would make him less inclined to call, and if the other players shove after he folds so be it. I also didn't expect almost the entire table to go all in lol.

If we shove I don't see him committing himself unless he has a draw. If he just has QQ or KK he's likely putting me on AA if I potted in such an early position pre then pot the flop. I doubt he's even considering hitting his 2 outer or runner runner 2 pair. Though it is possible he could think he's ahead if he considers I could have a worse pair with the flush draw.

Yes the pot is huge but he also probably knows its suicide for me to pot it with a non premium hand into a dry side pot with as many players as there are for the main. I'm never bluffing here and we are both pretty deep. It's not like there's 1 player all in and just me and him left.

So it makes me wonder, if we check, does he shove a naked KK no draw? I just don't think so with how deep we are and no real incentive to push me out. I'm sure he knows I could check AA. I feel like he would want to get to showdown ASAP. Even if he does shove, can we ever fold?

great spot, lot to think about.

Tough spot - on one hand the chances of you winning this pot is slim, and jamming the flop does nothing other than protecting your equity. The more I think about it I'd just check and let him realize his equity - if he's never calling the jam with KK/QQ then what's the point, especially when you're probably like 15-20% to win this pot. Probably just a spot where you check and he plays very straightforward

I’m not behind my pc so don’t have any tools but the way to approach this is to split the pot in two pots, the main pot with all the multi-way all ins and your potential side pot vs the Mp

I’m guessing your equity in the mw pot is like 30-40% (could be worse) so essentially you’re risking a lot more than 1 SPR vs the MP. So figure out the actual SPR relative to your equity in the MW pot and find some sort of common situation to compare that to.

I ran our hand against 5 all ins - we're 12.3% on this flop assuming a 15% range.

Oh wow so really crushed. Ok so that makes it easy, your equity is is 300$ in that pot meaning an effective SPR of 6 v the MP. I actually misread the hand and thought this was 5 card, I don’t know much about 4 card. I’m guessing you can jam this.

Go to a solution library and figure out the ev of checking vs bombing these aces here for a EP v BTN 50bb SRP and CO v BTN 3bp 50bb. Those numbers should give you a good comparison for how this play will do.

I ended up checking and he instajams.

My decision:

Hand results:

Considering there is not that much dead money that’s probably not a huge mistake. But take things a step further now and analyse the deeper lessons to be learned.

Instead of just thinking about this hand in isolation consider what the fundamental part is that you don’t understand. It’s probably something like multi-way all in protected pot. So come up with 10-20 situations, hypothetical or from your db, and solve them. That way you actually learn from this hand.

Seems like a good fold if he won't jam bare KK/QQ. If this is close to the bottom of his range and the main pot you're basically dead to I think folding is right.

I think I'm just taking my medicine here and folding. I agree that I'm much more stack aware in these spots and probably either flat to c/r or min-click it so I can get that side pot going. You probably can't expect this kind of action in every hand (or can you)? Obv in a results orientated way this was the best way for you to lose the min.

IMO it appears you have yourself a pretty good game with plenty of spots to gain chips. While I do my fair share of BINGO spots I am one to step aside if things don't look good. This actually may be the best way to approach these pots in this game .. by not allowing anyone to raise others out and just see what the Flop brings.

Would you call/shove if V showed their hand? Do you and MP kind of stay out of each others way and pick off the others? I don't mind giving some respect to other big stacks, so to speak, in these spots in order to keep my standing at the table.

I know the pot odds are great and if you win the side you make money. Not saying I'd never call, but I love the idea of one of these other guys taking down this huge pot so I can just take all the chips away in a future hand and not be crippled by a 'double' loss You have one pair against the world .. and your Ace outs may not be good due to the wheel draw. GL

Yeah I think like said you could bet here around 500 and price him in. Your 55 here so with 400 in bet 500 makes sense. Wouldn't always play it this way but most of the time yes.