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Old 03-11-2019, 07:05 PM   #51
tikmassy
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

If I was you coach, I'd tell you this!

Move down to pl10 ASAP! Play that level until you can beat it for 10bb/100. Then and only then are you allowed to move up to plo20. Then the same for plo20, then plo50 until you have moved back up to your plo100 level.

If you can grind through the levels successfully, once you get back to plo100, you will be a winning player. Congrats you have successfully become a pro player! This is what it takes to become a pro! No pro has actually started at plo50 or 100 and simply made it happen. They all start at the bottom and work their way up. Take Durrr for example!

Your problem is that you dont want to put in the hard work first, you want to make 3-5k at plo100 straight away, without putting in the hours to hone your skill set!

25k hands is nothing, I do almost double that every single month. You need half a million hands just to get a good feel for the game.

Do you make notes on players? Do you exploit those players?
Can you identify weak players, can you exploit them?
Can you identify strong players? Do you avoid them?
Can you win pots without a hand?
Can you fold hands that you know you are beat?
Can you play solid poker if you lose a few buyins? Can you only lose 5 buyins when running bad and not blow up and lose 15?

There's a lot that makes a winning player, it's not easy, that's why so many fail. Not only do you need to have the skills and knowledge but you also have to implement and execute. This is a lot harder than you think, you have to be strong minded, you need to to train your mind, you need consistency doing the RIGHT things in poker until it becomes a habit. This takes a lot of time, years to master, not 25k hands. More like 2.5 million hands!!!

Yes you were running bad, nobody is questioning that but are you losing more than you should, that should be the number 1 question to ask yourself. I already know that 100% of your losses are because of your bad preflop game! You could of avoided all your losses if you fix your preflop leaks! It's that simple. Fix this and you will be a completely different player!!!
Preflop game, this is the number 1 biggest mistake you are making aside from the mental leak I already pointed out, your inability to move down stakes and play much lower, because of either greed (you want to much too soon) or because you feel entitled to win such big amounts. Either way it's a BIG mental leak to have!

It's a big leak because you won't have the skill set to move down in stakes when it matters. For example lets say you start winning at plo100 and start playing plo200, you win and move to plo500, now you hit a downswing, instead of moving down, I guarantee you, you will blow your whole bankroll at plo500! That is a big leak that many players have, they are winning players but don't win because of ego/mental leaks!
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:29 AM   #52
MartinK1979
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

Thank you for your words. I appreciate this. You take your time to give me some honestly advice but unfortunately I will not move down to PLO10. I will never do.
The one level I will play online, if I start playing again is PLO50.
I played the most hands there and I feel confortable there...I am not losing much there and I actually winning there most of my sessions with 37/20 style. I know its too loose but maybe I will tighten up and fix this to get around 30 VPIP.
I don't wonna be a pro and of course I have to study the game and work on my leaks.
I have print down the PLO hand charts (matrix for every position) and doing actually some work on it...But to be honest I will not put my whole free time ( I have a full time job) in a game what I can maybe never beat because of a lot of leaks, I can't never fix.

To be honest I really doubt I have the ability to be a successful player.
I have to be realisticly on this point and I am not right now but I will.
I am not sure I have the ability to study the game to become better player
I am totally fine with this I guess. I have only to accept the fact. I don't do it right now but one day I will..I have to let it go and make my mind free...
Just enjoy the game and that is..
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:56 AM   #53
Derp!
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Originally Posted by MartinK1979 View Post
Thank you for your words. I appreciate this. You take your time to give me some honestly advice but unfortunately I will not move down to PLO10. I will never do.
The one level I will play online, if I start playing again is PLO50.
I played the most hands there and I feel confortable there...I am not losing much there and I actually winning there most of my sessions with 37/20 style. I know its too loose but maybe I will tighten up and fix this to get around 30 VPIP.
I don't wonna be a pro and of course I have to study the game and work on my leaks.
I have print down the PLO hand charts (matrix for every position) and doing actually some work on it...But to be honest I will not put my whole free time ( I have a full time job) in a game what I can maybe never beat because of a lot of leaks, I can't never fix.

To be honest I really doubt I have the ability to be a successful player.
I have to be realisticly on this point and I am not right now but I will.
I am not sure I have the ability to study the game to become better player
I am totally fine with this I guess. I have only to accept the fact. I don't do it right now but one day I will..I have to let it go and make my mind free...
Just enjoy the game and that is..
TL;DR

OP: Guys, what can I do to improve?
2p2: A, B, C
OP: I won't ever do that; it's impossible anyways
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:46 AM   #54
bjoobs
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

don't see the point continuing to advise. just enjoy the donations guys.

on a side note, moving down to plo10 when it's no different from plo25 is stupid when you can deposit a large bankroll anytime you want. micros is micros, plo25 isn't more difficult than 10 just because it's higher. you don't have to earn stripes and beat levels. thats only necessary if youre grinding from scratch on a small roll. where i play, plo25 is softer than plo2.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:18 AM   #55
MartinK1979
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp! View Post
TL;DR

OP: Guys, what can I do to improve?
2p2: A, B, C
OP: I won't ever do that; it's impossible anyways
Like I have said I thank all you guys for the advice in this thread and i will think about it but its hard to impossible for me and to change my mindset over night. I was try it more than 100 times since I have start playing poker 12 years ago and I failed. I am still failing over and over...so I stopped playing right now, to get my mind free.
I quit more than 100 times the game and went broke more than 100 times. I got on tilt more than 100 times and got crazy more than 100 times after a bad beat...Its ok. I get over it and move on.
I will let it go. I can put my power and energy at something else and its better for my soul and my mind.
I have to let it go. I can't improve on those things, they are just stronger than me and my will power and thats ok. I have to accept that. Its only one point in life not the whole life.

I have a wrong mindset and skillset to be a successful poker player in the long run.
I know that and you guys tell me that over and over again and I am very thankful for this.You remeber me that there is somethings wrong and I have to catch on that.

I am a losing player and will stay probably a losing player, because I am not improving that much and the whole player-field out there is stronger than me.
I have to accept this fact...Its hard to accept it, I hate losing but I have to.
I enjoy the game and enjoy the environment, the free time I spend playing and the fun factor. I don't need to win and earn money with a simple card-game.
I have to accept the fact that poker is a professional or semi professional field and if you not improving, you will get crushed over and over again..

I will look at the hand charts and tighten up a little bit BUT I don't expect to win and get better. I have to give up on this...

Last edited by MartinK1979; 03-12-2019 at 09:25 AM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:06 PM   #56
bjoobs
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

i used to tilt and just mash pot button and go broke. you have to look at it as an odds and ev investment and not 'winning a poker hand'.

now i know that if i make someone put most of his stack in pre with trash and he's just so happened to flopped the one miracle hand, it doesn't matter. he's losing money long term you're winning it from him long term.

why don't you try playing real tight. real nitty. just give it a go for a bit. see what happens when you're flopping the good end of the straight or the nut flush and they're donking off to draws that are dead. try it.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:26 PM   #57
tikmassy
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Originally Posted by bjoobs View Post
don't see the point continuing to advise. just enjoy the donations guys.

on a side note, moving down to plo10 when it's no different from plo25 is stupid when you can deposit a large bankroll anytime you want. micros is micros, plo25 isn't more difficult than 10 just because it's higher. you don't have to earn stripes and beat levels. thats only necessary if youre grinding from scratch on a small roll. where i play, plo25 is softer than plo2.
LOL, where is plo20 softer than plo2?

Also it's not about earning stripes, I suggested moving down significantly lower because OP can't! He has a mental issue to move down, and while I did mention plo10, I could of said even lower, my point for him was to move down so he can actually do it, it's training for him, because his ego/his bad mindset won't allow him to.

Also I disagree the lower you go the easier it is to beat that stake! Plo 10 is easier than plo20 generally!
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:40 PM   #58
tikmassy
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Originally Posted by MartinK1979 View Post
Thank you for your words. I appreciate this. You take your time to give me some honestly advice but unfortunately I will not move down to PLO10. I will never do.
Last piece of advice! This is exactly WHY you are a losing player! I suggested moving down as part of a training exercise, to show yourself you are able to move down and play those stakes, beat them easily for 10bb/100. But you can't.

Why can't/won't you move down, whats stopping you?

As I read further, I now see you have given up, you are ok with the fact that you will stay a losing player and that's ok. Fine no problem, I already said it's tough to make it as a professional poker player, there's a reason why only a handful make it.

Good luck in life brother, you got a good day-job and other hobbies, so treat poker like 1 of those hobbies. To make it to the top in any sport or hobby is very hard, not just poker.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:43 PM   #59
bjoobs
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

nah there is very little difference in the play between plo10 and plo25.

earlier today, utg pots, mp 3 bet, i 4 bet and get 5 calls and they all had random junk and i took it down with a flop jam.

plo2/5/10 is actually more likely to be full of newbies and grinders. as you get to plo25 and 50 you get guys who earn decent money wanting to punt a few stacks off for fun like they do at casinos.

no difference in skill level needed to beat any of these levels - abc value town.

and i'm currently in France so i'm playing at a few difference French sites.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:58 PM   #60
tikmassy
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Originally Posted by bjoobs View Post
nah there is very little difference in the play between plo10 and plo25.

earlier today, utg pots, mp 3 bet, i 4 bet and get 5 calls and they all had random junk and i took it down with a flop jam.

plo2/5/10 is actually more likely to be full of newbies and grinders. as you get to plo25 and 50 you get guys who earn decent money wanting to punt a few stacks off for fun like they do at casinos.

no difference in skill level needed to beat any of these levels - abc value town.

and i'm currently in France so i'm playing at a few difference French sites.
French players are mostly fish, I think it differs from your own personal experiences in France.

Generally the lower you go in stakes the easier it gets. Even the levels you mention! I'm not talking 1 country or 1 site or even 1 hand! I am talking generally!

You see worse and worse players the lower you go, it's a fact!
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:23 PM   #61
michaelorcharlie
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

^ can confirm that
Currently in Spain
PartyPoker only allows French/Spanish players
PLO25, 50, 100 is soft as ****
Most of the players are straight retarded
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Old 03-12-2019, 03:32 PM   #62
MartinK1979
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Originally Posted by tikmassy View Post

Why can't/won't you move down, whats stopping you?
Its probably my ego and my impatience to play that low...I can't take one stack of 10$ seriously enought, but I need it to beat the level. So thats why I can't play there for long..I tilting couple of 10 bucks like nothing there...
Like I said, I have to accept some facts about my leaks and my poor mindset.
I will have fun, I will enjoy the game and not take it too seriously or belive that I will improve that much to be a winning player longterm...I just don't have it, what it takes! Thats ok..Just only few people make it..I am not one of them.
I have to give up and let it go and make peace with that forever..

The only thing is, I don't need to be regret that I am losing money in this game. And don't be angry or upset about this...I know other players, who are better than me, work hard to get to the skill level where they are and to take my money and its ok.
I have to take poker like somethings, what I would buy for this money to have fun...

Last edited by MartinK1979; 03-12-2019 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:42 PM   #63
bjoobs
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Originally Posted by tikmassy View Post
French players are mostly fish, I think it differs from your own personal experiences in France.

Generally the lower you go in stakes the easier it gets. Even the levels you mention! I'm not talking 1 country or 1 site or even 1 hand! I am talking generally!

You see worse and worse players the lower you go, it's a fact!
on stars maybe, but not anywhere else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yovdSBqsj0s it's not possible to play worse than these people.

i'm English and played online in England. plo10 is no different from plo25.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:55 PM   #64
horseofhell
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

Hey martin big fan of your journey youre my favorite SSPLO reg by far
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:51 PM   #65
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Old 03-14-2019, 01:05 AM   #66
MartinK1979
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Hey martin big fan of your journey youre my favorite SSPLO reg by far
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:58 PM   #67
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

If you play like an aggro donk, then this is what you have to accept. I would play a different style if I were you. If you just keep gambling, well, then that's what keeps happening.

I would keep in mind something that Jeff Hwang wrote. Even in shorthanded and heads up pots, the big pot hands are still the big pot hands, and the small pot hands are still the small pot hands. You don't care about your position or hand very much. In general, building a big pot heads up out of position is a bad idea.
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:02 PM   #68
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartinK1979 View Post
Thank you for your words. I appreciate this. You take your time to give me some honestly advice but unfortunately I will not move down to PLO10. I will never do.
The one level I will play online, if I start playing again is PLO50.
I played the most hands there and I feel confortable there...I am not losing much there and I actually winning there most of my sessions with 37/20 style. I know its too loose but maybe I will tighten up and fix this to get around 30 VPIP.
I don't wonna be a pro and of course I have to study the game and work on my leaks.
I have print down the PLO hand charts (matrix for every position) and doing actually some work on it...But to be honest I will not put my whole free time ( I have a full time job) in a game what I can maybe never beat because of a lot of leaks, I can't never fix.

To be honest I really doubt I have the ability to be a successful player.
I have to be realisticly on this point and I am not right now but I will.
I am not sure I have the ability to study the game to become better player
I am totally fine with this I guess. I have only to accept the fact. I don't do it right now but one day I will..I have to let it go and make my mind free...
Just enjoy the game and that is..
Jeezus, why are we wasting time on this.....
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Old 03-14-2019, 01:06 PM   #69
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

I agree with the general idea that lower stakes are easier. But not necessarily, online.

Most players who are beginning and seriously studying the game all get the same advice. Start low and work your way up. So sometimes the lowest stakes are players really grinding trying to play well. They are not real pros but they don't play that bad. But players with real outside income and no real "bankroll" won't play those stakes, they just keep loading up at higher stakes. This phenomenon sometimes means the middle stakes are the easiest. Those low stakes beginners? Some just quit or lose and look for something else to do. Some do move up of course.

In my local games, the highest stakes have some of the very worst players.
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Old 03-14-2019, 02:23 PM   #70
bjoobs
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Originally Posted by the_spike View Post
I agree with the general idea that lower stakes are easier. But not necessarily, online.

Most players who are beginning and seriously studying the game all get the same advice. Start low and work your way up. So sometimes the lowest stakes are players really grinding trying to play well. They are not real pros but they don't play that bad. But players with real outside income and no real "bankroll" won't play those stakes, they just keep loading up at higher stakes. This phenomenon sometimes means the middle stakes are the easiest. Those low stakes beginners? Some just quit or lose and look for something else to do. Some do move up of course.

In my local games, the highest stakes have some of the very worst players.
exactly.

the people who love to gamble have decent jobs and like to spew a few hundred every weekend. those starting at plo2 are often trying to grind out small profits or improve a game trying to move through levels.

if you worked all week at your 100k a year job you would go online of a weekend and load up a couple of bullets at plo50 or plo25 you wouldn't fanny about playing plo2 for buttons.
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Old 03-14-2019, 03:25 PM   #71
MartinK1979
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Originally Posted by the_spike View Post
If you play like an aggro donk, then this is what you have to accept. I would play a different style if I were you. If you just keep gambling, well, then that's what keeps happening.
Maybe I have overplayed some of my hands in position thats true BUT I put most of my money as a favorite or at least not much as a dog..If you take a look at the equity, did you? I had solid equity in almsot all my all in spots.
Its high variance style I know. I am running currently 45 buy ins UNDER EV at PLO100...so It doesn't matter how I play, I can't win there anyway...
I know my preflop game sucks, so I am looking at my bigest leaks atm using preflop charts..so maybe it will works some day BUT I don't care much anyway..
For me is poker just a game to have fun and spend some free time to get my mind free and to relaxe. Just enjoy playing and not care much about winnings and losings. I am more than 10k$ down in the last 2 year...Maybe I could spend the money on something else of do what ever I do..who cares..Its my money and its my free time. If I have to study the game like a real job than its somethings wrong here...
I love playing and I love the game but I don't need to be a winner..or working hard to be a winning player...I never get that right BUT now, I am starting to accept and let it go and its fine!
I don't need to be a winner in everything what I do in my life.
That is the most difficult part in my mindset, I have to master right now.
I don't need be a winner its ok losing and its ok to be like I am.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:58 PM   #72
bjoobs
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

^ your all in ev line indicates you get it in bad and still lose. i don't see what the problem is or why you're ignoring that ?

you cannot be getting it in as a favourite or 'not much of a dog' because you're losing when you're expected to be losing. you get money in when the expected outcome is that you lose money. ok you're losing more than you 'should' but even if it were 'fair' you'd still be losing.

i'm missing why you're complaining. just get better. suck less. then you will win. maybe your graph will be $10k+ ev but you only earned $7k or something but the reason you're losing is because you're a losing player not because of variance or riggedness.

if your ev was like +5k but the profit was -5k then ok it's variance. but both lines trend downwards.

you seem like a good guy but please take advice from people itt who know better than you (i'm not one of them)
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:08 PM   #73
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

Quote:
Hand 4:

partypoker, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.50/$1.00 - 5 players
Replay this hand on Upswing Poker

Player2 (UTG): $100.00 (100 bb)
Player3 (CO): $197.38 (197 bb)
MasterPLO (BU): $100.00 (100 bb)
Player6 (SB): $68.03 (68 bb)
Player1 (BB): $272.22 (272 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($1.50) Hero (MasterPLO) is BTN with A♠ Q♥ J♣ J♥
Player2 (UTG) raises to $3.50, 1 fold, MasterPLO (BU) calls $3.50, 1 fold, Player1 (BB) calls $2.50

Flop: ($11) J♦ 5♦ 8♣ (3 players)
Player1 (BB) checks, Player2 (UTG) bets $8.15, MasterPLO (BU) raises to $34.90, Player1 (BB) folds, Player2 (UTG) raises to $96.50 (all-in), MasterPLO (BU) calls $61.60 (all-in)

Quote:
hand 4: Unlucky, but pre. is marginal. Flop seems bad, again you have position and are setting fire to that value.

Can someone double check on this? In my book its a definitive raise on the flop for value and protection?!
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:18 PM   #74
bjoobs
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

^ i too don't see what he did wrong there really.

any 4, 6, 7, 9, T, Q or diamond can be bad for us and slow us down/put us behind, especially to the other callers range.

not sure what the play should be but against all but a couple of very specific hands we're a good favourite on the flop if we get the preflop aggressor HU.

i also don't see how calling with this hand on the button 4 handed is 'marginal' but happy for someone to explain.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:48 PM   #75
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Re: LOL some PLO100 hands thats why I can't win there

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Can someone double check on this? In my book its a definitive raise on the flop for value and protection?!
Confirmed that analysis is 100% wrong. Pre is fine, flop is fine, poster is smoking crack or maybe looking at a different hand. This is a top 5% hand, definitely strong enough to call a raise from UTG, even more so because it is only five handed. Strong argument for three bet - folding to a four bet I suppose.
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