Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Small Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 1/2 and below pot-limit Omaha poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2019, 02:44 PM   #26
+EVillain
journeyman
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 345
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by md46135 View Post
There was a lot of discussion before and from what I remember 30% isn't "fairly low", it's standard. Nando had no business expenses here, all business expenses were paid by Upswing. If expenses are like 25% of sales revenue, then giving 30% of total revenue to Nando sounds about fair. If they gave him 50+% like he wanted, they would be breakeven or even down money, that deal would be absolute **** for Upswing.
none of us understand the contract, or what is 'standard' payment structures are in the poker coaching world. the largest coaching sites operate on different models, upswing is the only major site doing these large modules. the online coaching industry is like a decade old.

i think both sides made a lot of mistakes, imo its possible that nando didnt understand how to negotiate the deal he wanted, or that he agreed then wanted more. im not blindly taking his side. i have seen the content by both guys, listened to dougs podcast with joe ingram, and wanted to understand what happened in general

i hope jandez didnt screw some guy and his mom who were making scarves, but i dont have the energy to go through the thread and understand the story. Jnandez isnt perfect, but doug has demonstrated that he can be very malicious and unfair over and over through his content
+EVillain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2019, 04:36 PM   #27
DaveduFresne
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 340
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HUMBLE. View Post
He has definitely began to 3bet pre much more aggressively in and out of position. In the past, he would flat AQ45ds, however in these recent videos he squeezes a lot more often.
The more I play, the more I see I have to learn, but aren't these type of hands pretty poor, with the two straight draws? Or a better example would be J1056 ds or not, pretty crap right? You're likely to flop that 36% chance or whatever it is exactly rather than the wrap you want.
DaveduFresne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2019, 05:43 PM   #28
f1tz
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 135
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveduFresne View Post
The more I play, the more I see I have to learn, but aren't these type of hands pretty poor, with the two straight draws? Or a better example would be J1056 ds or not, pretty crap right? You're likely to flop that 36% chance or whatever it is exactly rather than the wrap you want.
AQ43ds is 100% a squeeze in a GTO environment as BB/SB vs CO/BU
f1tz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2019, 07:49 PM   #29
HUMBLE.
old hand
 
HUMBLE.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: https://discord.gg/qcepnHT
Posts: 1,211
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Not sure on pre either way, but I when I mention squeezing I refer to 3-way+ spots.
HUMBLE. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 03:17 AM   #30
DaveduFresne
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 340
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1tz View Post
AQ43ds is 100% a squeeze in a GTO environment as BB/SB vs CO/BU
How is GTO if CO is tight and only raises with Aces? IT has to depend on the player, right?
DaveduFresne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 03:33 AM   #31
f1tz
centurion
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 135
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveduFresne View Post
How is GTO if CO is tight and only raises with Aces? IT has to depend on the player, right?
You do understand what GTO is/means right?

No offense man but plz consider you skill level before you make a post like this. Jnandez has shown many winning graphs so just because you think that he played a hand or two wrong, doesn't make him not a good player, same goes for everyone.
f1tz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 08:14 AM   #32
DaveduFresne
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 340
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

GTO is an unexploitable strategy, like shorstack play can be in NL if you shove with the correct range. I cannot buy that always three betting AQ24 dbs is unexploitable, many players have a very tight raising range, although others are very loose. If GTO was anything more than a theory deepstacked, you'd have an unbeatable computer program by now. Players could just memorize cards and positions and be unbeatable. Like cardcounting in blackjack, most people wouldn't be able to do it, but those with good memories could all be poker pros.

I'm willing to learn and take advice, but if I see a guy hasn't raised once in an hour until now, I'm not three betting him with AQ24. If that is a leak somehow, it must be a very small one.
DaveduFresne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 08:33 AM   #33
hackprotech
adept
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 732
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

the amount of ignorance in this thread is absurd...OP why do you try to criticize him when you clearly dont know what the **** you are talking about...?
hackprotech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 09:53 AM   #34
therunbad
newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 47
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

there is no doubt that jnandez is a high skilled plo expert
therunbad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 03:18 PM   #35
DaveduFresne
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 340
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hackprotech View Post
the amount of ignorance in this thread is absurd...OP why do you try to criticize him when you clearly dont know what the **** you are talking about...?
Very helpful. Why so defensive, is he your best friend or something? I asked a question "Is Jnandez really good at omaha?" That's a question, it isn't a statement. It isn't saying "Jnandez sucks at omaha".

I would love someone to explain to me how reraising AQ24 doublesuited from late position is always the optimal way to play, disregarding opponent's tendencies, stack sizes etc. and if there truly is a GTO theory for every hand dependent on position, then shouldn't there be a robot that can destroy any player in omaha?

Things have to get a little deeper. Will our opponent reraise us with worse? Will they call and fold unless they smash the flop? Does our opponent ever raise with worse than Aces or doublesuited kings?

I could see using pokertracker and using preflop raise and three bet percentage, flop fold % and then having a GTO play for certain percentage players for each hand and position.
DaveduFresne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 06:43 PM   #36
PokerPlayingGamble
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,474
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

i thought doug polk bought up all the scarves
PokerPlayingGamble is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 02:44 AM   #37
10bbloser
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 53
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveduFresne View Post
Very helpful. Why so defensive, is he your best friend or something? I asked a question "Is Jnandez really good at omaha?" That's a question, it isn't a statement. It isn't saying "Jnandez sucks at omaha".

I would love someone to explain to me how reraising AQ24 doublesuited from late position is always the optimal way to play, disregarding opponent's tendencies, stack sizes etc. and if there truly is a GTO theory for every hand dependent on position, then shouldn't there be a robot that can destroy any player in omaha?

Things have to get a little deeper. Will our opponent reraise us with worse? Will they call and fold unless they smash the flop? Does our opponent ever raise with worse than Aces or doublesuited kings?

I could see using pokertracker and using preflop raise and three bet percentage, flop fold % and then having a GTO play for certain percentage players for each hand and position.
Who said it was "always" the optimal way to play?

And who said you have to "always" play optimally to be good at poker?

He can spaz out too just like anyone else. He isnt immune to tilt. And he has his reads.

I would assume he plays post flop infinitely better than most people. So he can 3bet pretty wide IP.

He strongly favors ALL non paired double suited hands as you can tell if you watch his streams. He will 3bet 2 and 3 high card double suited hands especially if the the hand is AsQd2s4d with the two high suits connecting.

I am not theory expert, but I assume this is because when you make a high flush you are never splitting and when you make a high flush draw you can put people to the test in low SPR situations. And making the other guy make tough decisions is going to be your bread and butter.

So 3betting this hand gives you a few distinct advantages immediately. You have position throughout the hand. And you have 2 high flush draws as well as a very deceptive hand that should be a lot of just high cards but now flops like 24x and 35x are good as well.

Should everyone 3bet this hand? I dont know. Is is GTO? I dont know. Is it profitably for Jnandez to 3bet this hand? Probably. Because he is ****ing amazing at postflop PLO.
10bbloser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 06:25 AM   #38
F_Ivanovic
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The moon
Posts: 4,623
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveduFresne View Post
How is GTO if CO is tight and only raises with Aces? IT has to depend on the player, right?
He said both players. If CO is an uber nit that isn't playing GTO then ofc we can exploit that and decide against 3b AQ24ds.

Can't imagine there are many uber nits at those stakes though so his 3b was almost certainly correct against most opponents.
F_Ivanovic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 07:59 AM   #39
DaveduFresne
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 340
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by F_Ivanovic View Post
He said both players. If CO is an uber nit that isn't playing GTO then ofc we can exploit that and decide against 3b AQ24ds.

Can't imagine there are many uber nits at those stakes though so his 3b was almost certainly correct against most opponents.
Yeah, I have to say I'm shocked at how loose some of these guys seem to play. Makes me wish I was allowed to play on pokerstars.
DaveduFresne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 05:56 AM   #40
gay_on_tse
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 606
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by +EVillain View Post
none of us understand the contract, or what is 'standard' payment structures are in the poker coaching world. the largest coaching sites operate on different models, upswing is the only major site doing these large modules. the online coaching industry is like a decade old.

i think both sides made a lot of mistakes, imo its possible that nando didnt understand how to negotiate the deal he wanted, or that he agreed then wanted more. im not blindly taking his side. i have seen the content by both guys, listened to dougs podcast with joe ingram, and wanted to understand what happened in general

i hope jandez didnt screw some guy and his mom who were making scarves, but i dont have the energy to go through the thread and understand the story. Jnandez isnt perfect, but doug has demonstrated that he can be very malicious and unfair over and over through his content
I’ve read and understood the contract. Nobody got “shaft hard”.
Yes he screwed some guy and his mom for some scarves.
You don’t have to go through the thread, you can take my word for it.
gay_on_tse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2019, 05:17 PM   #41
jdr0317
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,345
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

QQ98 hand looks standard, I'd expect 4 bettor to pile it in here with a variety of hands that QQ98 does well against. It's also $600 in the middle before the flop and $370 behind holding an overpair + FD + BDSD. Folding would be a pretty big error IMO; it's 2019, Omaha strategy has evolved past living scared.
jdr0317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2019, 05:20 PM   #42
jdr0317
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 6,345
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10bbloser View Post
Who said it was "always" the optimal way to play?

And who said you have to "always" play optimally to be good at poker?

He can spaz out too just like anyone else. He isnt immune to tilt. And he has his reads.

I would assume he plays post flop infinitely better than most people. So he can 3bet pretty wide IP.

He strongly favors ALL non paired double suited hands as you can tell if you watch his streams. He will 3bet 2 and 3 high card double suited hands especially if the the hand is AsQd2s4d with the two high suits connecting.

I am not theory expert, but I assume this is because when you make a high flush you are never splitting and when you make a high flush draw you can put people to the test in low SPR situations. And making the other guy make tough decisions is going to be your bread and butter.

So 3betting this hand gives you a few distinct advantages immediately. You have position throughout the hand. And you have 2 high flush draws as well as a very deceptive hand that should be a lot of just high cards but now flops like 24x and 35x are good as well.

Should everyone 3bet this hand? I dont know. Is is GTO? I dont know. Is it profitably for Jnandez to 3bet this hand? Probably. Because he is ****ing amazing at postflop PLO.
Also Q hi FD's are much much better in HU 3 bet pots than MW single raised pots, so you're adding a ton of playability to the hand
jdr0317 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2019, 01:12 AM   #43
organdonor4cash
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 136
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

he is a solid plo player.

not the best there ever was, because he is just too straight forward abc gto.

but to get the basics right, sure why not learn from him. Another, similar way would be to read this sentences: "Play good hands and play them aggressively and dont donk off your money."

as far as what kind of person he is? i dont know him, and judging from the sort of socially awkward youtube persona he has i wouldn't fancy knowing him either.
Judging from him going hook line and sinker for grant cardone shows me he's a bit of a sheep.
organdonor4cash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2019, 10:58 PM   #44
tofurocks
adept
 
tofurocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Can't beat 10z
Posts: 860
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Nandez is a confirmed scarf scammer and contract weasler, do you really want to learn poker from a man with those scruples ?
tofurocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 05:08 AM   #45
PLOhohoho
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 43
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

PLOhohoho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 07:13 AM   #46
z0mgtiltz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
z0mgtiltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GetDatSzechuan McNuggetSauce
Posts: 10,725
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

That site is horribly inaccurate.
z0mgtiltz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 09:18 AM   #47
gay_on_tse
grinder
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 606
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

and grant cardone is a god
#10x
gay_on_tse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 10:05 AM   #48
organdonor4cash
centurion
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 136
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gay_on_tse View Post
and grant cardone is a god
#10x
only people who have no idea of sales think that.
organdonor4cash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 11:46 AM   #49
z0mgtiltz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
z0mgtiltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: GetDatSzechuan McNuggetSauce
Posts: 10,725
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

pewpew
z0mgtiltz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 03:39 PM   #50
PLOhohoho
banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 43
Re: Is JNANDEZ really good at Omaha?

grant cardone can suck my BB
PLOhohoho is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online