Hi all,

Do you loosen up in really fishy games? Not total garbage, but like calling an open with AQT36ds suited ace.

Thanks,
DT

Play loose on the button. I'd call that otb
Play loose in cutoff but be wary of how button's playing. ie: will you be oop a lot?

When otb, I play pretty much every 3 card broadway hand suited to the Ace in fishy multiway 5c games.

Just to chime in with some generic poker logic the looser the game the tighter you want to play and vice versa. Something to always keep in mind.

In my experience the opposite is true.

fair enough but we are not talking about experience. this is about maths.

Lol I hear ya, but haven't seen these maths.

just think about it for a sec. whats gonna make more money entering pots consistently that are multi way with weak hands? or sometimes entering pots that are multi way with strong hands.....

I think the question is better phrased "if your going to be entering the pot often would you rather be up against weak ranges and large overlays or tight ranges with bad odds?", and conversely "if your going to be entering the pot rarely would you rather have a weaker range and poor odds or a stronger range that doesn't need odds?" Feels like I'm battling you and I'm really not. I'm not going to belabor the point further. If you disagree it wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.

Gilly, your regurgitation of the 20 year old maxim of "play opposite of your table" isn't applicable in 5 card PLO. You should be playing very loose IP against people who aren't playing well postflop.

There are a variety of post flop strategies which can be successful with the right preflop play. Furthermore, different strategies will flourish against various table makeups. Weak tight players can be exploited by bluffing and semi bluffing. Frequent bluffers can be exploited with WAWB lines, especially on very dry textures. Tight aggressive is a decent strategy against any lineup. And your perceived strategy is usually as important as your actual strategy.

You can play whatever % of hands you want but if I have position on you every hand, you will go broke every time.

Play more hands IP.... Play larger pots in position..... Nut peddle OOP. GL

Position matters, as in all games.

But playing loose ranges vs. 1 villain is much easier than playing loose ranges vs. 4+ villains.

Maybe there are games out there were everyone plays weak loose pre. and weak tight post, so you can play loose and then just bet everything and print but in all games I've played people play loose pre. and then think any set or flush is the nuts post ... so rarely bluffing and just having the best hand all the time is the easy win.

Inflating the pot because you are in position is not an objective. It happens because the late positions open as wide as they can profitably do so to steal the blinds but inflating a pot is not the goal.

The deeper the stack to pot ratio the greater the positional advantage.

You 3bet a lot more to isolate. I would not generally widen the VPIP by much.

If you want to phrase it that way, no, but when you're in position, you tend to have better realisation, so making the pot bigger tends to be better. You still don't generally want to be putting money in with much worse hands, but of the spots that are close, you're much more keen to go for it when you're deeper than not.

Let's play a game where you have the button every hand but have to pot blind every hand, and I don't?

Yeah if you're a nitreg. Or, how about, you construct a strategy that minimizes your exploitability by constructing a stronger check range with enough x/r to punish people who merge too much?

Inky, precisely because IP has better realization, inflating pots increases oop realization. IP opens as wide as is profitable to take the blinds. Inflating the pot when the pot is defended is a consequence not a goal.

What are you talking about? Did I ever say inflating the pot oop is a goal? Are you suggesting to never raise or 3betting oop?

Was just responding to your quote "but when you're in position, you tend to have better realisation, so making the pot bigger tends to be better."

Obviously shortening oop spr increases their realization and decreases ip realization advantage. It is a result of an attempt to obtain the blinds only and is not a goal in itself is all I'm saying. Obviously taking the blinds down via folds when we have an equity advantage is superior to limping everything and allowing the blinds to realize for free, so no I am not suggesting not raising pre.

When we're OOP, we 3bet a bigger % of our vpip range, but we do not actually 3bet more than IP in terms of raw frequency, with some small exceptions like BTN vs EP. In every other spot, IP flats either same frequency or more (can vary slightly based on rake and stacks, this is based on 100bbs). Generally speaking, though, this is true.

The BTN vs EP situation is mostly because BTN can profitably flat without having someone IP flat while MP vs EP you would let btn in, so it's a function of MW pot as opposed to just position itself.

You are right, I didn't understand you properly, we do 3bet the hands we play in order to decrease our realisation, but a big chunk of it is to fold out the BB. If it's purely to lower SPR and not these other factors, we'd see a high 3bet-flat ratio from BB too, but we flat a lot in BB.

In reality, vs a CO raise, we 3b 8% OTB, 7.3% in SB, 6.9% in bb.

3betting does reduce IP realisation advantage, but the way it works is, even with a reduced R advantage, they still have a positive multiplier in R, and the pot becomes bigger. With certain hands (strong hands with equity edge) the combined equity and polarity advantage + reduced R means it's still profitable to bloat the pot, but that's due to a combination of factors, which R increase is only one of several.

I’ve talked about this before, but in loose live games, i think there’s strategies (that I don’t necessarily advocate for, but think can be interesting).

Like pot sweetener raises on the button. If 5 people limp in front of you, why pot it and risk more money if they’re always just going to limp call, when you can make a smaller raise that still makes it simple to commit all the chips if you drill the board?

Limping up front: we aren’t getting folds. We aren’t pushing a ton of equity. So might as well keep the pot small

Play anything with nut potential. Like you wanna play AQ63 suited to the ace? Go for it. QQ74? You can overset T993 (that guys totally play).

I think as long as you’re playing for the nuts, you’ll do well in these games. Just don’t get married to your random 2p postflop like everyone else


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Eh, don't get into the habit of playing QQ74r just to over set someone playing any pair pre. ... the NFD hands are much better.

You'll make much stronger hands when you do hit and you won't be desperate to pile money in until the board changes.

Yeh, if it's a limping game pre. and you have position and <300bb feel free to set fire to 1bb but, as the situation diverges more from that ideal, life will get much worse for you.

I think that’s bad advice, especially in raked games.

Don’t expand range; just put more money in pot when you do play. Isolate more.